18-03-2003 09:02									#1
	Soundwave - an explanation Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Soundwave asked me on MSN to post this here as he is banned. I'm just copying and pasting here, so don't shoot the messenger:

"I cannot write in Apolyton anymore, as I have been banned without prior knowledge. I thought about writing up a new account, going on Apolyton and telling you my 'case'... but then I thought what’s the point? I don’t need that **** in my life.

Civilization is a great game, enjoyed by all, brings people together and while you play you are happy, enjoying it, kicking butt or in some case's losing, but you enjoy it. Some of you people have turned that around, if you don't do something the Aployton way, its not the right way. In other words, being hassled of cheating... I mean different cultures join together on one site, if one person makes a joke or is kidding, it would be funny to him and maybe some cultures but not to others and may be offensive and rude.

I posted the wrong file on Aployton, it was going to be my history scenario re-vamp, totally different, its own tech tree, different units, different map based on the giga world, new and better events, but I posted the wrong one that I working from. If you ask 'hang on he posted the history file he knew', no I didn't because I have two Civ2 files one for making scenario's and ones that have been made, by other people and me.

For the fact Exile has stated 'I thought that we agreed for you let this drop out of sight. ' I did agree to this, I will not deny it, but its not the same scenario, and for a fact I had e-mail Civfanatics website to take it off, still nothing has been done, its the only site, the scenario is on by my knowledge. Also Exile 'SW, you're a liar and a thief.' to a person, who thought… “I’ll try a scenario”, so I used your’s as a pallet, but I now know what I did was wrong, but call it what you will an update, next version, I don't care, some people liked it, they said it had good colour, appealing to the eye, fun to play. I thought I did something right finally, after the 'cheating accusations' and ‘how me and my girl friend wanted to play from the same computer incident’ we have the same computer, she wanted to play a pbem and see what it was like and got nailed for it, so much for that, no fun for the person on the receiving end... for that I even verballing abused some person for some comments towards her. Some of you even talked to her on MSN. I mean come on a person comes on here wanting to play, gets abused; I get called a cheat, because I didn't ask the Moderator if it was allowed.

If you want to ask me this, “is this site fun?” NO, I don't think so, but I still want to be a part of it, because since I have been here, I have made friends, helped people, and it felt good, this does not! I ask the moderator, is this not a site for fun and creativity!!

To the people who first played with me in Exiles Aow PBEM game, we destroyed Germany, it was fun, I didn't want it to get boring so I thought what about making an Austria (even though in the end ANZAC killed me), but it was fun, the diplomacy and warfare of words. Now sometimes I can’t join a PBEM game, and now I can't do anything!

Some people takes things too seriously and 'shoot people down', 'that’s not right' or that's 'tacky', even though you maybe the 'Gods' of this site, at least beginners are trying, they might be as good as you 'Gods' one day...

I saw my name in a readme file in Eurocrises, saying thanks to 'Soundwave' and others for your helpful advice that made me feel really good, me the person everyone is so quickly to blame and shoots their mouths off. If I am banned how can anyone hear my side of the story? I don’t know if anyone else gets the feeling of great joy when you help someone and get credit for it... or no credit at all just helping, but to me it feels really good. I was playing Civilization 2 since I was 14, I thought it was the best, and I’m now 20 and still playing it nearly every week (sad I know) but it’s a good game, its fun.

I have to ask honestly, I have explained my actions in full, and yet I am banned, for what?"

	18-03-2003 09:22									#2
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Maybe this should be asked in another forum like Apolyton/Administration?

	18-03-2003 09:24									#3
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[soundwave]But I was accused and banned in this section, and furthermore few people at SL read the Apolyton/Community section regularly.[/soundwave]

	18-03-2003 10:11									#4
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I read through that once and it made me
Then I read it again and became even more

I gather SW has been banned for a while and is unhappy about something new as well as something old?

	18-03-2003 12:02									#5
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quote: I gather SW has been banned for a while and is unhappy about something new as well as something old?

Rav, have a look at: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=78720

	18-03-2003 12:59									#6
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So who banned him? Is there an Apolyton Forum rule against plagerism?

	18-03-2003 13:31									#7
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I didn't even know Soundwave was banned! How? Why? Because Exile asked for it because of the rip off??

As much as I think I would have been mad if my work had been "stolen", I find it really sad...

	18-03-2003 13:44									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Case Rav, have a look at: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=78720

Aaahh. The lightbulb finally clicks.
That's Soundwaves biggest problem. An appallingly low signal-noise ratio.

quote: So who banned him? Is there an Apolyton Forum rule against plagerism?

If there isn't there probably should be...

	18-03-2003 14:57									#9
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I am quite a new poster here, and from what I can gather, using other people's files is fine...

As long as you have the author's express permission and give him/her full credit.

We WW2 scenario makers have been openly and honestly trading units, terrain, etc.
And it works great in addition to increasing our community feeling.

What I can gather is that this soundwave fellow swiped a entire scenario, then made it into his own obvious copy.
Without permission, or any such...Not a wise move. Especially if you post it online.

I can see why the original creator was annoyed, a scenario maker or any creator always recognises his own work...

A rather unfortunate situation.

	18-03-2003 21:30									#10
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quote: I am quite a new poster here, and from what I can gather, using other people's files is fine... As long as you have the author's express permission and give him/her full credit. We WW2 scenario makers have been openly and honestly trading units, terra in, etc. And it works great in addition to increasing our community feeling.

That isn't true. You don't necessarily have to ask the author for permission. Most authors will allow use of their work (graphics, maps, ideas etc) as long as they're credited. And most people are fair enough to credit people.
And this isn't limited to WW2 scenarios.

	18-03-2003 21:47									#11
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@Stefan Härtel.

Of course this isn't limited to WW2 scenarios. Did I actually state that it was?

No I didn't.
I was going by my own experience.

And I think it is only proper to always ask permission from the creators of artwork, files etc.

I did with any artwork I borrowed for my scenario, with the exception of Nemo, who is unavailable.

So it is true, in my case.

	18-03-2003 22:00									#12
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I did not ask that SW be banned. If he is, I have precious litle sympathy, however.

My intention was to make clear that the soundwave person presented a scenario as his own creation when it was not. It was, in fact, my own, and only superficially altered at that. Moreover, in game terms , the "changes" were a disaster, in no way accurate with the period or capturing the spirit of the age of industrial warfare.

And now he's whining about how I'm being mean to him.

	19-03-2003 00:26									#13
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From someone who has made a scenario completely based off of someone else's scenario, I can completely understand where Exile is coming from. Before I even started thinking about editing Captain Nemo's 2194 Days of War, I sent him an e-mail, told him some of my ideas, and asked his permission. He gave me his blessing, and even some ideas. Since then, the scenario took on a shape of its own, and there is not all that much left at all that resembles Nemo's 2194. HOWEVER, the first person I thanked and mentioned in my readme was Captain Nemo. I gave him all the credit, because he deserved it. I think Soundwave made a very grave error by not asking and not crediting Exile.

Pap

	19-03-2003 02:20									#14
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Is SW banned at civfanatics?

	19-03-2003 02:34									#15
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maybe what he did wasn't very nice
but why has he been baned??

and what is that about the wrong file benig posted??
that it is very weird...

	19-03-2003 02:34									#16
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Well, I have been a member of Apolyton for some time but am not as prolific a poster as most of you. In my opinion, Exile has every right to be angry about another taking credit for his work. However, I certainly think whoever banned SW was being abit harsh. Gee, that is someone who can say "serious consequencies" and REALLY mean it! There should be a few vacancies at the UN for you after last night. Anyway, I hope that SW will appologise to Exile and be allowed back on so you can all start having fun again. However strongly we feel, it's not worth upsetting people about. Civ is a hobby after all.

That's what I think anyway.

[edit] spelling correction

Last edited by Caspian on 19-03-2003 at 03:44

	19-03-2003 03:47									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Shaka Naldur and what is that about the wrong file benig posted??

He told me that he had made a completely new version of History with several units files to be activated by a batch file, a new tech tree, and a different map. He did this so that he wouldn't be accused of ripping off Age of War. However, this new version that would save his reputation was 'conveniently' destroyed by a computer virus. So, I guess this goes on faith.

	19-03-2003 04:08									#18
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Maybe if he could get his new version out so that people (including Exile) could see that it is completely different, he could be unbanned?

	19-03-2003 04:12									#19
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I have to say that I doubt that SW is actually banned. As far as I know, Apolyton has a policy where mods who ban people have to contact the banee via a PM [which can be sent and recieved while banned] or email, and then post the details of the ban on the 'secret' mods board.

Given that SW hasn't recieved any notification, and that the offending files which constitute his only banable(?) offence are still attached to his posts, I really doubt that SW is actually banned. From memnory, early last year SW thought that he'd been banned on CFC when it turned out that he just had his browser settings wrong,* and I suspect that something similar is happening here (that or SW just doesn't want to face his critics).


On the topic of plagerism, I've included a note in all my scenarios readmes giving permission for the scenario to be modified in any way as long as I remain credited for my work, and the various other people who contributed to the scenario (eg graphics designers, etc) remain credited for what portions of their work remain in the mod. IMO, this is a fair and reasonable thing to ask (that said, I have no problem with people who impose tougher restrictions on would-be modifiers: after all, it's their work).

As for my personal expericance of modifing other peoples scenarios; I was careful to ask Harlan Thompson for permission to release graphical upgrades for his work, and, from memory, I sent him the files to make sure that he was happy with what I was releasing.


* At least, that was his explination for having a string of DLs at CFC

	19-03-2003 05:06									#20
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I say BS to him being banned. That thread wasn't even locked. SW's playing for sympathy and I'm willing to put money on it.

	19-03-2003 05:11									#21
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Uh um...

Did Soundwave by any chance just change his email address...

His status shows as awaiting email confirmation... NOT restricted or ban.

Tell him to check his email for the confirmation email.

If he didn't, have him email me at the address in my signature and I will fix any problem he might have.

HE IS NOT BANNED...

(unless somebody tried to do it, made a mistake changing his status, didn't correct it, and didn't post about it in our ban log... all highly unlikey)

	19-03-2003 05:26									#22
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As I screwed up my account at Historic-Battles a couple of days ago, I really shouldn't laugh

...but I can't help myself:

	19-03-2003 05:36									#23
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edit; clarification--this is a response to SW's not being banned and claiming that he was. Yeah, Case, I'd laugh too if I weren't the target of this business.

Last edited by Exile on 20-03-2003 at 03:05

	19-03-2003 05:55									#24
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Oh and by the way... If somebody is banned, posting a thread for them to speak will only get you banned.

So Darius871... you better hope he really wasn't banned, because we do shoot the messenger...

	19-03-2003 06:14									#25
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I know, it was a calculated risk (supposedly Cyrion was going to post but I happened to be online when SW finished typing his response).

Anyway, we'll never know about the new scenario since it was either really destroyed or he's lying. Also he'll probably disappear for a month or two like usual so we won't know if he was really banned.

	19-03-2003 11:15									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Darius871 so we won't know if he was really banned.

He wasn't... so now you know

	19-03-2003 12:48									#27
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I think there isn't anything wrong if you use other person's ideas and concepts if you credit them. If anyone hasn't done this it doesn't need to be plagerism it could be that he only forgets it. I am currently working on my Imperialism 1904-1919/20 scn and i am using units from the "History" scenario a giga world map from an old WWII scn. and modified events from some other WWII scn. especially if you aren't a good artist (in fact I am a very bad artist) you NEED to use other people's graphics. If anyone haven't credited me in his scn. I wouldn't be that harsh. I would simply recommend
him to credit me or to show that it isn't my work

Always remember:
Was du nicht willst das man dir tu
Das füg auch keinem andern zu
and:
"Schlägt dir jemand auf die linke Wange
dann halte auch die rechte hinn."
copyright by - Jesus Christus - (I hope he will not ban me for this plagerism)

Attachment: nicholas.jpg
This has been downloaded 85 time(s).

	19-03-2003 15:10									#28
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quote: Originally posted by NikolajRomanov [...] If anyone haven't credited me in his scn. I wouldn't be that harsh. I would simply recommend him to credit me or to show that it isn't my work

Nobody here objects to his map/graphics/tech tree/whatever to be used by someone else, even if one or two things remain (accidentally) uncredited. But from what I can tell Soundwave released pretty much the exact same scenario, without crediting.
Although according to Soundwave he simply uploaded the wrong scenario??

	19-03-2003 17:27									#29
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So he isn't banned? What an attention whore.

	19-03-2003 18:03									#30
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This is probably nitpicking but...

If Soundwave were under the impression that he uploaded was completely new, why did he refer to it as v1.2? I know if the changes I made to a scenario were as extensive as his claimed to be, I'd be re-releasing it as a v2.0.

Since this new version was 'deleted' , I guess we'll never know the truth. If what's he's telling us all along has been true, he must be the most misunderstood person in the world.