18-03-2003 13:20									#1
	Is the U.S. better or worse than it was 50 years ago? Increase the size of your Attachments

Obviously it is better because of the less racism now than 50 years ago.

But take away the racism, was the 50's really that bad?

I suppose it was worse for women. They seemed to be oppressed back then. But they aren't any happier now than they were 50 years ago.

What I'm getting at is: Is the U.S. getting better or worse?

	18-03-2003 13:25									#2
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: What I'm getting at is: Is the U.S. getting better or worse?

And you want this answered with a yes or no question???

	18-03-2003 13:31									#3
	Get a bigger avatar today!

yes

	18-03-2003 13:32									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

It was either this, or I creat a thread titled. Is there a superman curse? Currently they can't find anyone to play Superman because everyone is afraid of the curse.

	18-03-2003 13:36									#5
	Tired of ads?

Better or worse?

Rather than say yes or no to that, how about I just say better (for the most part).

	18-03-2003 13:42									#6
	Put an end to popups!

you could always elaborate in the space provided below . But I didn't want to think of any poll options. It's late and I'm tired.

	18-03-2003 13:45									#7
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Depends on what you mean, because "better or worse" covers a huge area.

	18-03-2003 13:52									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Depends on what you mean, because "better or worse" covers a huge area.

If someone doesn't say, I assume they mean they are including all aspects with equating the pros & cons left up to the individual posting/voting.

If I'm wrong Dissident & you had something else in mind let me know.

	18-03-2003 13:55									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

It is better than 50 years ago, but worse than 5 years ago. Since it's silly to select the alternative better/worse with yes/no, it's banana.

	18-03-2003 14:48									#10
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

50 years ago, the US accounted for 70% of world's production. Today, 20%. Can't be good in that respect.

	19-03-2003 02:05									#11
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Of course it's better. If I had to livie in the US in my year of choice, I'd pick 2003 over 1953.

	19-03-2003 02:06									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

At least the US is willing to fight to kick out a dictator than put one in this time. . .I hope.

	19-03-2003 02:08									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I live in it now, so it must be better

	19-03-2003 02:16									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

POverty is down, segregation is finished, rights for other groups have increased, people are wealthier, healthier (longer life spans)m the constant dread of nuclear annahilation is done, no more draft..

On the other hand: crime is up, people are fatter.

I say, better.

	19-03-2003 02:21									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

No differient, still a rogue state in rebellion against your
lawful Monarch.

Will you ever... learn..

	19-03-2003 02:23									#16
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

50 years ago was 1952. Truman was in power. We had a stalemate in Korea and the French were losing in Indochina. Truman had also lost China and fired McArthur. We were clearly losing the Cold War. He was the most unpopular president ever to hold office according to polls.

50 years later, the Korean issue is reemerging, Vietnam is a total loss, we won the cold war, but are now in a war against terror. The United States has been attacked in a major way.

However, we have a president that is effectively fighting back, in contrast with the feckless Truman. His popularity remains high. We have confidence that we are winning the war on terror in contrast to our national gloom 50 years ago.

Also, as you say, Dissident, racism is substantially reduced and the rights of women are substantially enhanced. As well, the economy today is much larger in real terms than it was in 1952. The average American is a lot better off today than he was 1952.

	19-03-2003 02:28									#17
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Ned, are you still living in 2002?

	19-03-2003 02:30									#18
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Opps, 50 years ago we elected Eisenhower - a New Hope, in Star Wars terms. America's decline under Truman suddenly halted.

Even thouhg Ike was a great president, I still think we are better off today considering the domestic factors.

	19-03-2003 02:33									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Big Crunch Ned, are you still living in 2002?

Yes. But I caught it myself. Thanks.

	19-03-2003 03:00									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

In general better, the current crisis is just a temporary standoff that quite everybody will have forgotten within 10 years, just like with the standoff with Reagan and with the gualle. People always assume that what he now happening is important, the future often tells us that it isn't.

	19-03-2003 03:04									#21
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

50 years ago there was no CIV, No Apolyton.

Much better now.

	19-03-2003 08:13									#22
	Support Apolyton

We are much better off today than 50 years ago.

	19-03-2003 08:23									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Lay people tend to view history of a country as just a simple, continual upward path of so-called progress.

But why not view a country's history as a jagged path, with upward, forward movement in positive ways, and then some slippings backward in negative ways?

So in this aspect, it's over-simplifying things to say whether or not the United States is absolutely better than it was 50 years ago.

50 years ago, the United States was much more popular with the other Western nations during the Cold War, and with more recent memory of United States saving the Allies during World War II.

Today, the current government administration has alienated many of our allies and I think our world position has detoriated somewhat.

In terms of civil rights? Homosexuals are still denied equal protection under the Constitution and religious fundamentalists still hold sway over a substantial population with its homophobic propaganda. Overt homophobia is not villified in a negative sense as overt racism is today. On the other hand, there is progress towards equal rights regardless of sexual orientation by states, counties, cities, and companies.

And given a whole other set of different issues, I really can't decide absolutely whether or not United States is better now than it was 50 years ago. In terms of quality of life for more people -- yes, but in terms of societal issues -- I'm not sure.

	19-03-2003 08:23									#24
	Support Apolyton

I generally agree.

But what I can't figure out is why there is so much anger and unhappiness in the U.S. today.

	19-03-2003 08:31									#25
	Put an end to popups!

MrFun, 50 years ago you could go to jail or be involuntarily committed to an asylum just for being gay. You couldn't hold a government position. As bad as things may be today, they were worse 50 years ago.

That said, I think America's social peak was in the 1970s. We have a better standard of living today, but we were freer thiry years ago.

	19-03-2003 08:33									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Dissident I generally agree. But what I can't figure out is why there is so much anger and unhappiness in the U.S. today.

Because you aren't looking hard enough. Just because things were worse then doesn't mean things aren't bad now.

	19-03-2003 08:49									#27
	Suffering from ads?

The U.S. has become worse for personal freedom gradually since the 70 'S with respect to constitutional issues on everything from firearms to Privacy to domestic law. The average American is more regulated and survieled then his earlier counterpart.
The manufacturing sector that supplied a majority of middle class families with adequate employment were moved to more competitive labour forces in other countries,thus the middle class shrunk.
The Value of the dollar is also comparitively less as a result and wages if placed on parity would be substantially less.The Average American is poorer and carries more debt.
The answer is a emphatic NO!

	19-03-2003 08:52									#28
	Support Apolyton

I can't agree with the poorer bit.

Americans struggled to afford 1 tv set back in the 50's. Now they have 3 or 4, with 3 or 4 VCR's and one DVD player. Many can afford sound systems as well.

I would be inclined to agree we make less money than back then, but we also have 2 people in the houselhold working which makes up for it and more.

But money does not equal happiness.

And I really feel people are more unhappy now. Why else are anti-depressants selling so well?

	19-03-2003 08:57									#29
	Increase the size of your Attachments

First off, remember Mother's Little Helper? Depression was just as common back then. We also had a lot more self-medication with alcohol.

Also consider that Vandal-1 was supporting my contention that the 1970s was the height of American freedom.

	19-03-2003 09:00									#30
	Got spare money?

We would have avoided alot of these problems if Strom Thurmond had been elected President 50 years ago.