20-03-2003 01:09									#91
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Frankychan

Go back and post on BAC, Damn it.

	20-03-2003 02:21									#92
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quote: As for the family unit, did you not notice Marx's commentary about how the market has already abolished the family? How many here live in extended families? Even today, the nuclear family is torn asunder by the forces of modern life. More than half of all children today have divorced parents. On top of that, infidelity is as high as 70% according to some studies. What family?

Up until university, I can say that I lived in an extended family, since 2 of my grandparents, my mother's side, lived 5 minutes away from us.

At least once a week, sometimes more, we would go to visit, and have dinner together.

I agree that the divorce rate is abysmal, but what solution do you offer for this problem? Do away with the nuclear family altogether?

And che, glad to hear you are busy with work instead of Apolyton.

Christians can live in communities, sharing the wealth that all accumulate. This is part of the congregation in Acts, as it seems they shared property equally.

However, communism according to the Manifesto cannot work with Christianity. Marx denies the existence of a world beyond what our senses can perceive. This includes the existence of God.

So unless you redefine communism to reject the manifesto, it seems clear to me that the two are incompatible.

	20-03-2003 02:28									#93
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quote: For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods. And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey. Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents. And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two. But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money. After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them. And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more. His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them. His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed: And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine. His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed: Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury. Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents. For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath*.

Matthew 25:14-30

*That last line can be roughly translated as “To each according to his ability, from each according to his need.”

	20-03-2003 13:05									#94
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quote: Originally posted by Lonestar Frankychan Go back and post on BAC, Damn it.

Hey, member's only!

	20-03-2003 17:51									#95
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I don't know why people still support Marx... his type of government was very stylized for his time. I doubt it would be relevant to today's world. I tend to agree with Socialists on many issues, but come on... come up with your own ideas instead of following the writings of a guy, who today, would probably be homeless holding a sign "The end is near!"

	21-03-2003 06:40									#96
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quote: Originally posted by Sava I don't know why people still support Marx... his type of government was very stylized for his time.

That is an untrue statement. Marx never said anything about the form a socialist or communist society or government would take. All he said was that there would be a dictatorship of the proletariat, meaning the absolute rule of the mass majority of society and that we would take care of those in need and that it would be democratic.

	21-03-2003 15:00									#97
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT Matthew 25:14-30 *That last line can be roughly translated as “To each according to his ability, from each according to his need.”

Jesus and his apostles seemed to live in a commune.

Monkspider there is a Christian commie, a combo which I found odd. Even though I suppose you don't have to be an atheist to be a commie.

	21-03-2003 15:07									#98
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I just don't understand why people still believe in god.

now, let's turn it into a religion thread.

	21-03-2003 15:12									#99
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quote: Originally posted by The Andy-Man Maybe the idea that humans mean more then materialism is whats important. I mean, if you are doing a job you really enjoy, you should be happy to do it for free. Artists are the best example of this, a true artist dosn't give a damn for the cash because he is doing omething he loves, which is infinatly more important then how big your TV is, or how thick your wage packet is. Your incentive point of view is a proime example of Capitalist materialistic propaganda.

What is needed is balance. As much as productivity has increased there is still a lot of work that must be done, and much of that work is unpleasant. Even an artist must eat, have shelter, clothing etc. Incentives are needed in order for the things that must be done to get done, unless you advise returning to a much lower level of social integration. People may tend to overdo things materially, but this is predictible given that what drives them is their instinct to not only survive, but flourish. As long as it is still possible to "follow your bliss" it is enough, and that is remarkably easy to do in a society that produces an abundance of everything materially necessary for life.

	21-03-2003 15:15									#100
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quote: Originally posted by DuncanK It's not innate. It's learned. If people need to be selfish to survive they will be. If survival doesn't depend on selfishness, selfishness will die out within a few generations.

That's quite a load if it isn't qualified. There are many aspects of behavior that are genetically programmed to be competitive, inlcuding reproduction. Try to remove that from the species using behavior modification.

	21-03-2003 15:16									#101
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Sikander: You're correct. I don't think that people should be doing things for free. one of my main is flattening ( not completely, but not in the rediculous levels we see now!) the earnings curve, and introducing a system of manufacturing that predicts demand ( that can be done, while the same decision-making body controls all the factors involved, except consumer demand, perhaps ).

	21-03-2003 15:17									#102
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quote: Originally posted by DuncanK BS, humans are intelligent and social animals. You can't compare them to wolves.

Awaits the arrival of Sinapu.