18-03-2003 23:16									#1
	Can someone explain how pornography is freedom of speech? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Pornography is inheritantly evil.


OK I don't really believe that, I just had to put that out there. Some people believe it is evil.

I look at the text of the first ammendment: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. And I don't see anything about human bodies in there.

So how is it pornography and strip clubs fall under the first ammendment? How are these things allowed? Why have they not been stopped?

Someone please enlighten me. I don't want to talk about the war, I want to talk about perverting the constitution.

Obviously you know my position. I do posess pornography, but that doesn't mean I don't wonder about the legality of it.

	18-03-2003 23:27									#2
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quote: So how is it pornography and strip clubs fall under the first ammendment? How are these things allowed?

quote: Congress shall make no law...abridging the freedom...of the press

Under any reasonal interpretation of "press" its hard to ban printed porn and strip clubs aren't really similarly protected since localities can (and have) kept them away due to zoning laws etc.

And in times/places where its been illegal you tend to get a much nastier/exploitative/disease-spreading porn industry.

	18-03-2003 23:30									#3
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We like our hardcore porn magazines in grocery stores.. it rules, since they often are in the lowest row so the kids can check them out.

	18-03-2003 23:42									#4
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the freedom of speech has been transmutated over the years to any symbolic act, which has been translated to basically any act.

it's the degregation of principle.

	18-03-2003 23:48									#5
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Ill be glad to do away with pornography when we embark on a similar crusade to do away with ultra-violent movies.

Why stop at abolishing only one inherent evil hiding behind the First amendment?

	18-03-2003 23:54									#6
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quote: Originally posted by DetroitDave Why stop at abolishing only one inherent evil hiding behind the First amendment?

When writers and artists hit "writers block" and deadlines, they always go for the 'shock' value of violence and/or sex.

	18-03-2003 23:55									#7
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i think freedom of speech=freedom of expression which to me is freedom of though and action, so as long as it doesn't cause any great harm on people it should be legal, and if you say that pornography is bad, i counter that air pollution caused by cars is just as bad if not worse

	18-03-2003 23:55									#8
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We should outlaw "reality TV" before anything else.

	19-03-2003 00:03									#9
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quote: Originally posted by korn469 i think freedom of speech=freedom of expression which to me is freedom of though and action, so as long as it doesn't cause any great harm on people it should be legal, and if you say that pornography is bad, i counter that air pollution caused by cars is just as bad if not worse

I'd say that air pollution is much worse, even if you don't say pornography is bad.

	19-03-2003 00:03									#10
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Look around ACS. Reality is already banned.

	19-03-2003 00:36									#11
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quote: OK I don't really believe that, I just had to put that out there. Some people believe it is evil.

Many people have problems with pornography, it can be very addictive.

	19-03-2003 00:38									#12
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well it falls under freedom of expression...

	19-03-2003 01:40									#13
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Why would anyone want to destroy pr0n? Pr0n is good. Pr0n is loving. Pr0n does not judge you. Pr0n is pr0n.

	19-03-2003 01:47									#14
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Problem with porn in all it's guises is

1.Is it a voluntary business deal that she wants to do.

or

2. Is it just confused, abused and used woman being
milked by a pimp for money.

2 is the problem, not 1.

	19-03-2003 01:49									#15
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Limiting pornography is limiting of freedom of speach. You can see detailized discussion on the topic in my party thread (see link in signature)

Freedom is realized need. If somebody realizes that he need he draws for himself.

	19-03-2003 02:28									#16
	Remove this text

Pornography is simply erotica with brighter lights.

As such, erotica has been with us since humankind first sexualized itself- go back to Pompeii, to the temple friezes at Khajuraho, and see explicit depictions of people engaged in various acts of sexual intercourse.

The 'problem' with pornography is not so much pornography in and of itself, but Judaeo-Christian and Islamic attitudes towards the body and sex and the depiction of the body and sex acts.

The freedom to recount tales of sexual acts, and to describe in images sexual fantasies is part and parcel of the freedom to express oneself- and frankly I find the depiction of ultra violence, glamourized and sanitised, to be a much more destructive use of the freedom of speech.

	19-03-2003 02:55									#17
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I think porn is offensive to most women, particularly married women and would be shocking and unsettling to most children. It is also unsettling to certain religions, including communism. The former teach purity as virtue and impurity as sin.

However, porn is not offensive to most men because men are "visual" sexual creatures.

What does this have to do with "free speech?" Well, porn clearly is a form of expression. One can, I hope, distinguish between really well done porn and garbage just as one can distinguish between beautiful women and, well, .... But it does offends some and can be harmful to children.

So what we do in the US is regulate it. We keep it out of the public and out of the way of children. Those who want access to it, may.

This seems to be a well balance compromise to a complicated issue.

	19-03-2003 03:20									#18
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quote: The 'problem' with pornography is not so much pornography in and of itself, but Judaeo-Christian and Islamic attitudes towards the body and sex and the depiction of the body and sex acts.

Molly Bloom:

How do Christians depict the body, and sex?

Are both inherently evil?

	19-03-2003 03:23									#19
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Why wouldn't pornography be considered free speech? What, allowing blatantly racist, anti-semitic and mysoginistic tracts, articles calling for all sorts of represssion: thoese are allowed, but pictures of people being naked, or having sex, Oh no, the world will end!

	19-03-2003 03:25									#20
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if you don't like it don't watch it!

	19-03-2003 04:00									#21
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quote: Originally posted by The Andy-Man if you don't like it don't watch it!

An extremely good advice. I can let you URLs of some free pornosites if you want.

	19-03-2003 06:32									#22
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I think porn is offensive to most women, particularly married women

Particularly opressed and unempowered ones.

and would be shocking and unsettling to most children.

Have studies been done?

It is also unsettling to certain religions, including communism.

Death to religions. Commies are nuts, though it's always good to have a counterbalance to neocons.

	19-03-2003 06:38									#23
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There is no "free speech" right to saturate the citizens of this country with pornography. Free speech is to give the people the right (or rather to recognize the "natural" right) to criticize the government. Look at the early laws that remained in place after the Bill of Rights was passed. There were all kinds of restrictions on pornography. The "right" has been stretched so that the founders would not recognize it.

	19-03-2003 06:49									#24
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Ayt the same time, right fatre the onstitution was writen, there were laws that made human beings property. rights do change over time, and this ia a good thing overall.

We already have many laws against showing sex and nudity in public. You know, i find it realy funny: when the idea is that , you know, people might not want to listen to individual who don't suppor the war, then the consumer knows best and its all about bisiness. To say that the average American consumer wants to watch a bunch of half-naked people on screen..oh, then its the ungodly liberal media pushing this upon unexpecting saintly Americans.

	19-03-2003 06:52									#25
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What exactly are you trying to say GePap? You need to edit your post.

	19-03-2003 06:56									#26
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Why? read all the threads people make when they say noycotting anti-war artists is a violation of free speech. we always hear the response that hey, the media is rpivate, they do what they need to do to get business, and hence it has nothing to do with free speech. Well, then the fact that half-naked people appear on tv all the time (lead by the moralists at Fox), then obviosuly that is what the American people want, to see half naked people.

	19-03-2003 06:56									#27
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quote: Many people have problems with pornography, it can be very addictive.

Many people have problems with sugar, it can be very addictive.

	19-03-2003 06:58									#28
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Well I have no argument with the fact that many people want it. But I thought this thread was to discuss the first amendment as it pertains to pornograpy.

	19-03-2003 07:00									#29
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How do you distinguish artistic or political visual pieces from pornographic ones?

The government has no business regulating what's acceptable free speech and what's not, unless there are other issues at hand (libel, incitement, chld pornography)

	19-03-2003 07:01									#30
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quote: Well, then the fact that half-naked people appear on tv all the time (lead by the moralists at Fox), then obviosuly that is what the American people want, to see half naked people.

Yeah, isn't it funny how people like Bill O'Reilly decry the lack of our morality and only mentions Fox and their tawdry programming when someone points out the hypocrisy of him working for Fox. Then he tells us about Jenna Jameson et al hurting children while he shows Jenna in "lewd" poses on his show so, in his words, his viewers will understand the subject matter - porn.