20-03-2003 14:43									#181
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I prefer 7.62 too. Well I don't have any experience with 5.56, only 7.62.. it has a nice feeling to it too. I woudln't have it any other way if I could choose. 7.62 all the way man!

	20-03-2003 14:43									#182
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quote: Originally posted by MOBIUS Sorry but I have to laugh at some of the folks in this thread complaining about having to see the ugly face of war on this thread whilst they **** over the very ordnance responsible for those deaths... I really find it difficult to countenance that some of you get kicks from glorifying death and destruction - somehow I don't think you'd be singing the same tune if you were on the other end of it... There is a time and place to enjoy a piece of hardware going BOOM! And frankly this isn't it! Grow up and get a conscience!

You can have a respect for the power and awe inspiring presence of some of these weapons, and not be glorifing death or war. but whatever. We are just all sick bastards, i guess

	20-03-2003 14:48									#183
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka I prefer 7.62 too. Well I don't have any experience with 5.56, only 7.62.. it has a nice feeling to it too. I woudln't have it any other way if I could choose. 7.62 all the way man!

I've fired a 7.62 in semi- auto fire... definately a confidence booster. But, I'd hate to fire it full-auto, at least until i get a little more muscle. The M-4 I fired tho was amazing. The kick of a single 5.56mm round was practically non-existant, almost nothing more than a .22 round. And it was surprisingly handleable in full-auto too.

	20-03-2003 14:54									#184
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Hey, where are the pictures?

I saw a picture of a... Spanish civil war, I think, where a soldier is killed by gunshot as the picture is taken. Won a prize, I think.

	20-03-2003 15:19									#185
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7.62 hardly kicks at all too. It kicks a little, and I haven't used any smaller so I couldn't know.. but I could imagine they won't kick practically at all. It's harder to shoot full-auto naturally, it tends to rise a bit, but once you get the hang of it, it's not that big of a problem.

	20-03-2003 15:42									#186
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quote: Originally posted by Tattila the Hun Hey, where are the pictures? I saw a picture of a... Spanish civil war, I think, where a soldier is killed by gunshot as the picture is taken. Won a prize, I think.

Do you mean this one?

	20-03-2003 15:50									#187
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It was made by Robert Capa. The man is Federico Borrell García (just only one of the almost 2 millions spanish anarchists in those days).
You can see the moment he died, 5th september 1936 in Cerro Muriano (Cordoba, Spain). The picture was published in "Picture Post" (an english publication) on december 1938.

Last edited by jolair on 20-03-2003 at 15:59

	20-03-2003 16:51									#188
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quote: Originally posted by Kramerman You can have a respect for the power and awe inspiring presence of some of these weapons, and not be glorifing death or war. but whatever. We are just all sick bastards, i guess

My point is that there is a time and a place to get a hard on about military hardware, hey I like the stuff as much as the next man and my visit to the USS Missouri last year will always hold a special place in my heart...

HOWEVER!

NOW, is not the time and place for it!

This thread is paying homage to the very weapons that right now are starting to blow innocent victims to shreds, tearing them limb from bloody limb and destroying families - it strikes me as the height of irony that some people on this thread can't take the sight of pictures showing the effects of these weapons they worship so much!

If you don't think it's sick and bad taste to post this thread right now then consider what kind of reaction a poster might have got if on the day of 9/11, they decided to post their 'Top ten tower block demolitions' pictures on a thread???

You talk of respect - have some respect to those that are about to die in the name of 'regime change'...

	20-03-2003 18:22									#189
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Disclaimer
This is a deliberately poor taste post. IMO, it matches the poor taste of this thread. It is intended to let the "shiny weapons" people understand what they are doing. I still hope some will stop and think for a few seconds before flaming me.

A technology to behold :


Spectacular colours :


How noble it looks in the sky :


Solid workmanship


Go boys !

quote: ssssssSSSSSSSSSS.....ka BOOM!

quote: Good God! Is that one real?

quote: Originally posted by Kramerman You can have a respect for the power and awe inspiring presence of some of these weapons, and not be glorifing death or war.

Are you still so sure, now ?

	20-03-2003 18:25									#190
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Disclaimer This is a deliberately poor taste post. IMO, it matches the poor taste of this thread.

You could have put a better picture next to my post if you insisted on quoting it.

	20-03-2003 18:29									#191
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As an immediate answer to my previous post, I want everyone to know that I am not a Sept. 11 apologist. It was a dreadful crime comitted against innocents by a cowardly organization. my previous post shows a clear lack of respect to Sept. 11 victims, and this lack of respect in no way matches my views. It is just pure provocation for people to understand.

The admiration / glorifications that took America so many lives may probably hurt more than one American on this board. It is the purpose. The purpose is to understand how a victim of weapons would appreciate a thread full of "Awesome pics" of the very weapons that killed or crippled his brethren.
Either you're consistent, and I have posted "cool pics" in my above post, or you are inconsistent and say I am an *******. In all cases, I posted pics on par with the "cool pics" of American / Israely weaponry : current weaponry and warfare, cool explosions, embellished pictures of these things.

Does anybody here get my point ?

	20-03-2003 18:34									#192
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Does anybody here get my point ?

I do...

Assuming it doesn't get me banned...

	20-03-2003 18:40									#193
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Either you're consistent, and I have posted "cool pics" in my above post, or you are inconsistent and say I am an *******.

I don't understand how it would be inconsistent for me to call you a ******.

	20-03-2003 18:48									#194
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It would be consistent if you disagree with the sickening display of instruments of death before my post as well. My post follows the exact same logic than the other posts showing "cool pics" of military hardware and explosions. It targeted the authors of such posts.
This is not the logic I like. I just wanted to show how it hurts, and how poor taste it is.

	20-03-2003 18:55									#195
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quote: Originally posted by Kramerman Yes, the AR-10 is what you were thinking of. The M-14 was dropped because the M-14 was a lot heavier both in itself, and its ammo was about twice as heavy... i wouldnt mind tho, because one 7.62 could take a man down where as multiple 5.56 might be needed. Also, because of its very powerful rounds it was very hard to keep under controled while using automatic fire. To do this effectively it had to be fired while prone and using a bi-pod. The M-16 adn its lighter round however can be fired automatic relatively under control . The early model M-14's fired 30-06 bullets (truely powerful rounds), but the .308 (7.62) winchester was developed with modern propellants to be shorter, but almost as powerful due to the use of modern propellents, adn therefor weighed less, so more ammo could be carried by a soldier.

Well, my question about the choice of the M16 over the M14 was somewhat rhetorical. I've humped and used the FN, M16, and (on occasion) the AK-47 as well as SMG's of various manufacture so I'd say I have a pretty good idea of these weapons good and bad points.

The americans virtually forced the adoption of 7.62 within NATO since they used that ammo for the M14. Shortly thereafter, the US reversed course and changed to the .223/5.56 which nullified the whole idea of a single ammo calibre for NATO.

Sure, you can carry more .223 ammo than 7.62 and .223 allows easier automatic fire. My point was really aimed at why the US army chose to change in concept from single aimed shots to (random) autofire. I think there is ample evidence from a comparison of the combat effectiveness of the US marines (who maintained the concept of marksmanship) vs US army to suggest that single aimed shots are more effective. General Puller certainly thought so.

	20-03-2003 18:59									#196
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How about this, if you dont want to look at the pics of weapons go read another thread!

	20-03-2003 19:05									#197
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor It would be consistent if you disagree with the sickening display of instruments of death before my post as well. My post follows the exact same logic than the other posts showing "cool pics" of military hardware and explosions. It targeted the authors of such posts. This is not the logic I like. I just wanted to show how it hurts, and how poor taste it is.

Don't worry Spif, some people are so small minded that they are only capable of abusing people they disagree with...

Normally these people are warned about their personal attacks or banned - that is unless they have friends in high places...

	20-03-2003 19:10									#198
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I agree. Definetely poor taste.

There is NOTHING awesome or cool about weapons. Period. Whoever thinks there is, should experience war first hand. Having your family massacred by that "awesome weapon" really is a showstopper!

Especially in times of war... I mean, there's probably thousands of Iraqi soldiers who are forced to fight against the US right now. Do you think it is "awesome" and "cool" slaughtering them?
And that SCUD could land in a US or British field hospital. How "cool" would that be?

...poor taste! Same like making jokes about 9/11... or do you do that too?

	20-03-2003 19:21									#199
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Well, this is not an AWESOME military pic, for sure... But it's a military pic, after all. And express what a great part of the world is feeling right now, IMO...

	20-03-2003 19:24									#200
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Aro And thanks for your PM.

	20-03-2003 19:35									#201
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Any pics of CBeasts?

	20-03-2003 19:36									#202
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What are CBeasts ?

	20-03-2003 19:37									#203
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Counterglow and ACOL idiocy. A "full hundred" in thread reply count.

	20-03-2003 20:21									#204
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'Tis amazing how certain people can blindly leap to such accurate conclustions about the reasons people have for posting in this thread, not that I expected anything else...

	20-03-2003 20:24									#205
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ColdWizard :
I guess you are targetting me. I don't know your reasons to post in this thread, but I indeed know the consequence is an utter lack of respect for the victims of the machines you're picturing. It is probably not intended. It doesn't make it less disrespectful.

	20-03-2003 20:31									#206
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Spiffor: you're eqating the morality of general weapons, and the tools of terrorists? I thought better of you.

	20-03-2003 20:32									#207
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Spiffor, you're a complete and utter wise and intelligent fellow. If we ever meet I'd enjoy buying you a drink and shaking your hand

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	20-03-2003 20:39									#208
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel Spiffor: you're eqating the morality of general weapons, and the tools of terrorists? I thought better of you.

A bomb is a bomb.

	20-03-2003 20:42									#209
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The "morality" of your weaponds really depend of your point of view. I'm sure those who support Al-Qaeda would have recognized themselves in my "poor taste" post (which I absolutely disagree with), while spitting on the US/Israeli weapons.
Such people are wrong, of course. It doesn't make the sickening display of instruments of death in the US/Israeli side any better. I am sure any Iraqi who lost part of his family would call this thread a disgrace.

Just like any American would call a "let's show AWESOME PICS of Sept. 11 ! " a disgrace.

The only difference between the US military and the terrorists is that the military doesn't willingly kill civilians (I suppose that's what you call their morality). In the end, it isn't any different for those who have lost their families and acquaintance.
"L'enfer est pavé de bonnes intentions" (Hell is paved with goodwill) is a French saying, about how goodwill doesn't necessarily make for good or moral results. It applies every time a smart bomb hits a school or a hospital. Say as much as you want it was a mistake, it doesn't make the victims any less dead or crippled.

	20-03-2003 20:45									#210
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wow, Spiffor, those pics of airliners are the coolest military pics I've ever seen!