19-03-2003 05:14									#1
	Chat on 3-38 with CDG Remove this text

All of the chat couldn't be save since the applet that create the chat refreshes itself after a certain time period; I only have the middle to end of the chat.

I suggest we figure a way around this in the furutre.

Anyways what leads up to this is Togas and I asking them what problems do they have with us going South. I then ask them to define how many tiles out from their border do they claim as their territory. That's where the first chat picture comes in.

I expect Togas to add a bit to this as well. It was quite amusing to 'see' them squirm when Togas finally dropped the bomb on them.







I'm sorry more of it couldn't be saved.

	19-03-2003 05:23									#2
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My report from the CDG chat of today can be found here in the Correspondence Thread.

--Togas

	19-03-2003 05:26									#3
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I suggest that we meet them on a IRC Server (poly maybe) so that we can use a regular IRC Program and record the whole chat. We can host the chat here.

E_T

	19-03-2003 05:59									#4
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Things ain't looking good...

I think its good they know we are serious about their deception.

However, I was perhaps premature in catching them on the lie. The reason is if they did have contact with GC, we will now have no way of knowing it since they are probably telling GC at this moment not to tell us they had contact. I was kinda hoping we could catch them while talking to GC and perhaps getting the truth from them.

CDG will be very suspicious of us from now on, just as much as us.

	19-03-2003 06:49									#5
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Oh terrific. A potential advantage thrown away for mutual suspicion.

Was there such the need for rushing into this? Telling them nothing would have been less risky until a consensus had been reached.

	19-03-2003 06:58									#6
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Join us in the Chat room, we have some dignitaries from CFG here now.

E_T

	19-03-2003 07:09									#7
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Good Grief that was terrible !!!!

We have no idea what our world is like and how many teams we share our continent with....and we have just called our immediate neighbours a bunch of liars.

Gee wizz....we need as many freinds as possible, so we can pick our wars at a time and place of our choosing. Just knowing CDG are liars is far more powerful than letting them know we know.

And was it really so bad a lie anyway ? They tried to lock in a long term tech deal which would advantage us both. It may be true that they have not yet made contact with the other team.

Ask ourselves....would we of tried to do the same thing ? Protected our first contacts ? told a few white lies ?

Of course we would....hell we lied and told them that we were studying a different tech.

Guys...dont get hung up on a couple of white lies...its not a big deal, and there was no need to upset our neighbours this way.

Last edited by Hot_Enamel on 19-03-2003 at 17:19

	19-03-2003 13:04									#8
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I think the relationship between Apolyton and CDG is pretty disturbed right now... why did you call them liars and sarcastic?

Of course, if this is part of some master diplomacy plan, it's very nice, but please share it with us then.

The last opinions I read were to keep the fact that we know they're lying a secret..!

	19-03-2003 15:51									#9
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I know BFM, somehow we missed the secret democratic decision that was taken to tell them instantly and destablise relations with the only civ with which we currently have contact.

Can we have some less haste and more discussion next time?

	20-03-2003 05:17									#10
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How about an apology? That might salvage the relationship. I've been working on the Glory of War history, and I've realized that much of our war plans were based on suspicion of others, including the events that killed Lux.

	20-03-2003 09:20									#11
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quote: Originally posted by realpolitic How about an apology? That might salvage the relationship. I've been working on the Glory of War history, and I've realized that much of our war plans were based on suspicion of others, including the events that killed Lux.

An apology from who, from them?

I don't think asking for an apology would be an yless provocative ATM, at least until they calm down a bit.

	20-03-2003 23:17									#12
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I've read some new posts, and am starting to consider alliance and war against CDG a good idea(CDG seems to be angering everyone, like Lux). An apology might throw them off, though. When they continue to bluster, we cement our alliance, and they get the blame.

	21-03-2003 00:52									#13
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Or we're wiped out.

We are closer to being in the Lux position than they are. The only difference is that we have fewer neighbors, and our UUs can come into play.

	21-03-2003 02:08									#14
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That's exactly why we're swallowing our pride and appeasing them for a while till Dominae tells us our war machine is ready

	21-03-2003 03:35									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen That's exactly why we're swallowing our pride and appeasing them for a while till Dominae tells us our war machine is ready

It may be too late by then. Going a fully "peaceful expansion" route will give us the advantage in 60+ turns. There is little doubt in my mind that if they're going to attack, they will attack a long time before then. We have to have balance.

	21-03-2003 04:30									#16
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quote: I've read some new posts, and am starting to consider alliance and war against CDG a good idea(CDG seems to be angering everyone, like Lux). An apology might throw them off, though. When they continue to bluster, we cement our alliance, and they get the blame.

I agree with this- but like trip, I am all for a blitzkrieg attack before they get immortals. I don't trust them- I think they might want to take down "mighty apolyton" since it's the best and first civsite... just for the honor to say that they did so- at least that's my psychological analysis of their psyche.

	23-03-2003 07:32									#17
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Hi folks. Sorry I have not been around much. RL has been busy and ptwdg is occupying considerable time right now.

But I have a suggestion. We clearly got off to a bad start with CDG. And either way we go - peace or war - it would be better to re-establish reasonable relations with them. May I suggest that I step in as ambassador to CDG. This is in no way a criticism of BigFree, or anything that the FA team has done. I want that to be clear.

But, I worked fairly closely with Kentonio when we set the game up. We got along very well. I may be seen as a more trustworthy liaison. I can claim mea culpa - say some hot heads were involved - and I have been away or I would have stepped in. How can we get this back on the right track. That sort of thing.

It might calm things down. It might buy enough time until we unleash Theseus' shock and awe campaign. Or it might have no effect whatsoever.

Just a suggestion - I am at your service if you see merit in this.

	23-03-2003 07:56									#18
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In my catching up - I see that we did finally reach agreement with CDG on the NAP. So - my suggestion is probably irrelevant now. But in case the need arises ...

	23-03-2003 08:00									#19
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quote: Originally posted by BetaHound But I have a suggestion. We clearly got off to a bad start with CDG. And either way we go - peace or war - it would be better to re-establish reasonable relations with them. May I suggest that I step in as ambassador to CDG. This is in no way a criticism of BigFree, or anything that the FA team has done. I want that to be clear.

I haven't been doing the 'negotiating'; it's been Trip, Togas, and nye mostly. I've been involved wery little other than transmitting communications back and forth, which I'm getting pretty good at.

GhengisFarb is their Ambassador to us. I've just recently contacted him (finally) about us Ambassador's actually doing the things we were tasked to do. Let's see how that goes. I wouldn't mind some pointers as to how their teams president behaves; thanks for the offer BH.

	23-03-2003 11:07									#20
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quote: Originally posted by BetaHound ... until we unleash Theseus' shock and awe campaign.

Oh, I like that! Thanks for giving me sweet dreams tonight, BH!!