20-03-2003 02:12									#1
	1893 onwards: The President Reports Support Apolyton

1893:
Adjust productions, workers
Chinese get Automobile
Chinese sneak attack
Mongols get electronics from vikings
Vikings get flight, radio from mongols
Celts get Mass Prod.
Celts steal plastics
Japanese sink transport with 2 freights
Carthage gets radio from Vikings

1894:
Laser discovered, research choices are Guerilla, Robotics, Refrigeration . Research starts on Robotics.
Population exceeds 28 million
2 more SS completed
Uranium from Cadiz arrives in Avila; 164 revenue
Celts get electronics from Mongols
Mongols get Adv Flight, Mass Prod from Celts
Celts steal Space Flight
Japanese get radio from Carthage
Carth gets ToG from Japs

1895:
Robotics discovered, research starts on Superconductor
6 more SS completed (11 total now)
Gold from Avila arrives in Leptis Magna (124)
Chinese develop Mass Prod
Carths get Medicine from japs
Japs get espionage from carths
Mongols get plastics from celts
Celts get Fission
Celts start building spaceship
Celts steal rocketry, mobile warfare
Japs get automobile, mass prod from China
China gets radio, ToG, espionage from Japs

1896:
5 more SS added (16)

I'm going to temporarily stop playing and pick this back up tonight when I have more time to play a couple more turns. If the ministers think I should stop right now and send out the savegame, I can do that, too.

Last edited by ixnay on 20-03-2003 at 02:19

	20-03-2003 02:26									#2
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Onward to fusion power!!!

	20-03-2003 02:37									#3
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I've been expecting the Celts or Chinese to start a SS...

	20-03-2003 02:49									#4
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I think the Celt SS affects our actions. We need to continue on a direct path to our own fastest SS, but we have the ability to affect the Celts more than they can us. I think we should consider action against them to disrupt their SS program. We have some cities close to them, and those cities are not important to our own SS program.

	20-03-2003 03:20									#5
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perhaps some spies destroying there production might slow them up.

	20-03-2003 03:20									#6
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I agree, lets send in the spies

	20-03-2003 03:25									#7
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Why did our SMC not have a defence in place against the Celt spies? They're robbing us blind!

Fighter planes do *very* well against spies approaching overland.

	20-03-2003 03:44									#8
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A Spy attack on selected target cities would be very effective.

	20-03-2003 04:00									#9
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the strategy i would suggest could be compared to march madness let the fighters and other scouting units go out and meet the enemy on their terms, like extending the full court press with the guards selectively trapping the ball handler (enemy spies), and let our spies act like the big shot blocker in the middle for anyone that gets through. if we need to change some freights to spies or fighters, go ahead and do so.

	20-03-2003 04:08									#10
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We can't reach the Celts with any Fighter units we have anywhere. Did you have something specific in mind?

	20-03-2003 04:09									#11
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quote: Originally posted by atawa I agree, lets send in the spies

When did we get "Spies"?

	20-03-2003 04:22									#12
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quote: Originally posted by cavebear We can't reach the Celts with any Fighter units we have anywhere. Did you have something specific in mind?

rush a fighter in Issus, and use the fighter to scout the area for approaching spies, taking them out if spotted. I personally like to have a 2-3 movement square on the approach route to slow units down. Since we have a river connecting "" and Issus, perhaps purchacing that city or putting a fort on the river and a couple units in it would work also - of course we'd need engineers to do that.

	20-03-2003 04:47									#13
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by SCG rush a fighter in Issus, and use the fighter to scout the area for approaching spies, taking them out if spotted. I personally like to have a 2-3 movement square on the approach route to slow units down. Since we have a river connecting "" and Issus, perhaps purchacing that city or putting a fort on the river and a couple units in it would work also - of course we'd need engineers to do that.

OK, in what way will that slow down the Celt SS?

	20-03-2003 05:13									#14
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quote: Celts steal Space Flight.

Ixnay:

Both from Issus?

And why did you allow two spies to enter?
I can be blamed for not telling you to patrol, but to allow two to enter, and not on the same turn?

Every other freakin' front shut down.

Should have put patrol with the calvary one move down the river in my instructions.

quote: rush a fighter in Issus,

This is a good option to protect superconductor and Fusion Power, when we get them.

For now, station two units, two squares outside of Issus to act as patrol units that cannot be bribed. Use the Calvary and one of the Riflemen.

*sigh* And to think I was worried about non-vet Riflemen against Battleships and Cruisers.

quote: I think the Celt SS affects our actions. We need to continue on a direct path to our own fastest SS, but we have the ability to affect the Celts more than they can us. I think we should consider action against them to disrupt their SS program. We have some cities close to them, and those cities are not important to our own SS program.

Cavebear:

Several options:

We should rush our own spaceship.
Build and finish and launch. There is no way the AI will catch up when we finish fusion power, and complete a full spaceship.

What we need to do is to get serious regarding the construction of SS parts, so that we finish as soon as we discover Fusion Power, in 3-4 turns, IIRC.

Everything needs to be plowed into the construction of our spaceship parts except for the fighter in issus.

No more freight rushes. That approach has ended.

	20-03-2003 05:15									#15
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Ah, I didn't see that the Celts had stolen plastics first. It still could slow the Celts towards superconductor and fusion power once we get it (and laser now) - depends on what they are researching now (hopefully something other than laser or fusion power). without superconductor they can't launch.

	20-03-2003 05:17									#16
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quote: Originally posted by cavebear OK, in what way will that slow down the Celt SS?

I was speaking in the past tense... re Fighters. Rushing Spies will let us sabotage production... but frankly, the way the AI can move shields around, I doubt it's worthwhile. But then, I've never had to take that approach.

If necessary, we launch, and then send an expeditionary force to the Celt capital to reel in their peat-powered spaceship.

IMO of course. Keep the Freight rolling

	20-03-2003 05:22									#17
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quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 No more freight rushes. That approach has ended.

Without Freight, we don't have the coin to rush the spaceship, and we won't have the techs to finish it for a good 5 turns.

	20-03-2003 05:40									#18
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Obiwan - The President follows the guidance of the Ministers. If the Minister of War did not perceive a threat or transmit some warning to the President, he is not likely to act on it.

The President is not responsible for identifying the oversights of the Ministers.

Still, we go from those results as best we can, and usually without assigning blame. Some errors and oversights are to be expected. It's a Democracy Game; we do what we can as we are able.

But don't blame the President for not seeing what he was not warned about.

	20-03-2003 05:50									#19
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My response was to SCG, yet you responded "I was speaking in the past tense". Interesting.

	20-03-2003 05:51									#20
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just as a reminder, SS parts cost 200 gp for 50 shields. A freight can be rushed from 1 shield produced for 150 gold. In a 10 shield production city, a freight can be rushed 2nd turn for 75 gold. As long as the Manhatten Project is still available, we can use freights to deliver 50 shields towards the SS parts. And if we get a large delivery for the freight, we can use a single freight to rush several SS parts.

My example before would be we have 2 cities with 10 production and a city with 30 production. Those 3 cities combined can produce 1 SS structural every turn at a cost of 75 gold per turn. With a couple cities like CAPITOL producing freight every turn for delivery, we can fund many such SS parts, taking only a couple turns to build all structurals needed and then move on to components and modules. With enough gold and/or freights, we can rush the rest - we only need 3 modules, and components can be rushed with 2 freights and 120 gold.

	20-03-2003 06:42									#21
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quote: Originally posted by cavebear My response was to SCG, yet you responded "I was speaking in the past tense". Interesting.

Well, I had also advocated Fighters... so I jumped in using your response as a feeble excuse to take potshots at the 'sabotage production with spies' strategy. Sorry to have intruded on a private discussion

	20-03-2003 06:49									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man Well, I had also advocated Fighters... so I jumped in using your response as a feeble excuse to take potshots at the 'sabotage production with spies' strategy. Sorry to have intruded on a private discussion

Oh, it wasn't a private discussion. No prob there.

	20-03-2003 11:14									#23
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Excuse one's ignorance, but we have a head start on the space race. The extra 25% power from the super conductor is a luxury at this point in time. Why do we not alter our tax ratios (in effect change our total revenue output to supporting the Spaceship), pump up the tax side of things, rush freight and/or SS bits and pieces, launch the accursed thing and then build up a nice little task force, a few nukes, some paratroopers to use in stomping the capital of any civilisation that tries to build a faster ship and actually manages toluanch it in time for it to become a threat to us.

In all honesty I would say that the chances of the AI luanching a ship before us is mininal. We are relatively half way in terms of structure.

This is a space race gentlemen, nothing else matters.

	20-03-2003 11:31									#24
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My apologies, guys, but I'm not going to be able to play more turns tonight. The program I had to do took longer than I had planned. I promise I'll try to get them played tomorrow morning/afternoon.

	20-03-2003 12:02									#25
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quote: But don't blame the President for not seeing what he was not warned about.

Indeed. I agree that I should have expected celtic spies, and that I am to blame for the first tech we had stolen.

I just have a problem with the second tech.
If we find a hole, is it not his responsibility to try to plug the hole to avoid further damage?

What's done is done. Now we have to finish this game and blast off this hostile planet.

We're not even in the 20th century, yet we are fearing an AI launch!

It would be better if the Celts stole superconductor than plastics, because we could hope that the AI builds additional Modules.

SCG:

How short are we for coin?
Can we sell some libraries the turn after fusion power to push for SS parts?

What about other infrastructure, such as factories, and platforms?

We should seriously consider this approach because a turn or two saved now, will pay huge dividends.

	20-03-2003 17:24									#26
	Inflate your Upload Space

not seeing the save, i have no idea what our tax situation is, although i am a bit confused at the delivery choices - we are getting less than 200 gold for them - with better choices we'd be getting 2-3x that. Avila=Cadiz is same continent, i would have reccommended Vigo or CAPITOL (CAPITOL only if all non-hides commodities are all blocked) - large cities on different islands. Also gold to Leptis Magna? why not deliver to a city that demands it - i bet again we'd get much more from Vigo or High Tower. (demanded)

If we can do decent deliveries, then I agree with atomant, we can pump taxes and let the deliveries discover the next to techs. And we can always do a firesale on the round we finish fusion power to aid in launch.

Also a shame about the freight on transport - another deviation from the plan i started before i moved on to city planner to have all transports end each round in the city for protection and allow for 1-turn deliveries to select AI cities and almost all domestic cities.

	21-03-2003 04:27									#27
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Ok, onwards:

1896:
Troops moved outside Issus to intercept Celt spies
Carthaginian cruiser sunk off Amazon island
Carth. destroyer sunk off Obladi
Fighter sinks Mongol sub spotted off Kazan
Silver from Chii delivered to Canton (384)
Scientists alarmed by global warming
Celts build 5 SS Struct & 2 SS Component
Celts currently researching Combined arms

1897:
Superconductor discovered; Fusion research begins
4 struct & 1 component added (20.1)
2 spies destroyed outside Issus
Carth. cruiser sunk off Obladi
Chinese develop Mobile warfare
Carth. develop electronics
Mongols switch to republic
Celts build 2 SS Struct & 1 SS Component
Celts develop Combined Arms, Researching NONE
Japanese develop flight
Carth. get adv. flight, Auto from Vikings

1898:
Population exceeds 31 million
5 Struct built (25.1)
Temporary peace signed with Japanese
Silk from Vigo arrives in Izumo (220)
Gold from Capitol arrives in High Tower (488)
Uranium from St. Praski arrives in Saragossa (306)
Mongols develop Mobile warfare
Celt bomber strikes Cremona, kills rifleman
Mongols get fission from Celts
Sneak attack by japan (sink wounded cruiser)

1899:
Fusion Power discovered!
5 Struct + 1 Component built (30.1.1)

So there we are. We have all necessary techs and almost all SS Structurals. Save sent to ministers.

	21-03-2003 04:37									#28
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Here's our beautiful spaceship:

Attachment: ss.gif
This has been downloaded 36 time(s).

	21-03-2003 05:06									#29
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quote: Originally posted by ixnay Ok, onwards: 1896: Silver from Chii delivered to Canton (384) 1898: Gold from Capitol arrives in High Tower (488)

And there is a pamplona uranium freight which appears headed for WhereItsAt town

I know I'm no longer the trade minister, but its nice to see a couple of my freight deliveries i had advocated when i was in that position finally go through, and actually pay off

I'll take a look at the save and see if we can't get the SS finished this turn or not - we need 3 structurals (cheap), 14 components (moderate cost) and 3 modules (1276 gold if bought straight from 1 shieldx3). Since we have fusion power, if we can't built this turn, and if the trade and science ministers agree, we can push taxes to 70% (would net 1700 gold just from taxes) I don't see why we can't launch in 1-3 turns.

nice job in the 2nd half of the turns

	21-03-2003 05:17									#30
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the end is in sight, great leader, as from the 1st Presdaiant of the game, I would like to say... DON'T SCREW UP LIKE ME!!!!