20-03-2003 19:34									#1
	Should Apolyton recognize Kurdistan? Get a bigger avatar today!

We seem to have a lot of Iraqui posters at the moment. But none from Kurdistan, because their flag isn't available.

Apolyton already recognizes Antarctica as a nation. Should it also recognize Kurdistan?

Kurdistan Regional Government (Iraq)

	20-03-2003 19:40									#2
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It must recognize Apolytonia before !

Attachment: testflag5.gif
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	20-03-2003 19:41									#3
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Why not? They already recognize the UN.

	20-03-2003 19:49									#4
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Well, since after the war it will no longer exists, why?
We must not get stuck in the past..we must move into the future, and since this body has no future.....

	20-03-2003 20:05									#5
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Typical american liberal political correctness. No, we shouldn't add it, because then about 500 other flags would be whined to be here. There's not a single reason to do this.

	20-03-2003 20:08									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Tuomerehu No, we shouldn't add it, because then about 500 other flags would be whined to be here.

Then why do we have the EU, Antarctica, and the UN if we are going to keep out entities that aren't nations?

	20-03-2003 20:10									#7
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what's wrong with having 500 or so flags?

	20-03-2003 20:12									#8
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The antartica flag is a bit silly, but UN, EU, and NATO flags, and those of large, recognized orgs should stay. The rule should be: if it has legal standing, have its flag.

As for whats wrong with 500 flags: well, that's MarkG's decision.

	20-03-2003 20:15									#9
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Just you wait till the Turks on Appolyton see this. Hooboy, you'll be in trouble.

Only MarkG can save you then

	20-03-2003 20:17									#10
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If we have a Palestine flag, can someone give me a reasonable case against a Kurdistan flag?

	20-03-2003 20:20									#11
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quote: The antartica flag is a bit silly, but UN, EU, and NATO flags, and those of large, recognized orgs should stay. The rule should be: if it has legal standing, have its flag.

...is exactly what I was going to reply.

quote: If we have a Palestine flag, can someone give me a reasonable case against a Kurdistan flag?

For anti-Israel political correctness, I presume.

	20-03-2003 20:22									#12
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc If we have a Palestine flag, can someone give me a reasonable case against a Kurdistan flag?

Markos.



Ok, maybe he isn't very reasonable.

	20-03-2003 20:28									#13
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quote: For anti-Israel political correctness, I presume.

...So what's wrong with expressing anti-Saddam sentiment in the same way?

And why is everyone assuming that Kurdistan will not continue to exist? I think it's very likely to exist in some form, as a semi-autonomous region if not a true state.

Turkey's power to act on this issue has been largely lost when they decided not to host Coalition troops. Kurdistan is now IN the coalition, while Turkey is OUT.

	20-03-2003 20:31									#14
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quote: ...So what's wrong with expressing anti-Saddam sentiment in the same way?

Wild guess : You're the only one who's whining? We shall see...

	20-03-2003 21:11									#15
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc If we have a Palestine flag, can someone give me a reasonable case against a Kurdistan flag?

The Palestinian Authority has observer status in the UN, much like the Vatican. So it has a level of legal recognition the autonomous zone does not.

	20-03-2003 21:17									#16
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Yeah, I'm sure MarkG uses UN observer status to determine whether to add a specific flag option to a games website...

	20-03-2003 21:21									#17
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According to this admin. the territorial integrity of Iraq will be maintained after the war, which means, no independent Kurdish state. t best, they get an autonomous Zone...but then, as Tuomerehu said: that leaves te door open for the many, many flags of autonomous regions (and then, why not regions within Federations, such as US states? I want my NY State Flag!)

	20-03-2003 21:29									#18
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quote: Yeah, I'm sure MarkG uses UN observer status to determine whether to add a specific flag option to a games website...

Mind you, I don't mind having a palestinian flag, but why not add flags?

	20-03-2003 21:31									#19
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Surely Kurdistan is a special case right now?

Or is New Hampshire preparing to invade you?

	20-03-2003 21:34									#20
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Yes, special case..now. It won't be in about 2 months, unless things go badly wrong for the admin., while NH will surely be there in a year.

As for Addign flags..its up to MarkG.

	20-03-2003 21:35									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Jack the Bodiless Turkey's power to act on this issue has been largely lost when they decided not to host Coalition troops. Kurdistan is now IN the coalition, while Turkey is OUT.

If the Turks were hosting all those troops and heavy equipment, we'd be there to "restrain" them. Now or in the future, they can unilaterally say the Kurds did whatever, and not be constrained by whatever defined role and command structure the "coalition" imposed on them. Not being part of something means you're not really obligated to follow it's orders.

	20-03-2003 21:57									#22
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If the Turks cross the border while fighting is still going on in Iraq: that's a rear attack on an ally in war, and I hope that will provoke a suitable response.

I have a cousin who's married to a Kurd, so I have some claim to that flag. Jamil is family, dammit.

He's not in Kurdistan right now, but I hope his folks will be OK.

	20-03-2003 22:08									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Jack the Bodiless If the Turks cross the border while fighting is still going on in Iraq: that's a rear attack on an ally in war, and I hope that will provoke a suitable response. I have a cousin who's married to a Kurd, so I have some claim to that flag. Jamil is family, dammit. He's not in Kurdistan right now, but I hope his folks will be OK.

I hope they're ok too, but Turkey is a NATO member, and will just claim they're moving across the border to provide "security" due to rebel activity. They invoke their right to self-defense, and la de da, a whole new can of worms.

The best deal for them, and they're probably patient enough, is to wait until the occupation, or the end of occupation. It depends on what kind of "provocation" they can manufacture.

Considering Turkey's record with the Kurds, with Armenians, and at places such as Gallipoli, I'm rather glad to not have them along.

	20-03-2003 22:09									#24
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How is an attack into a state your ally itself is invading an attack against the ally?

If the Turks go in in force, there is little the US can do unless it has significant forces in the vacinity, and then, only by sort of blocking the Turks and telling them not to worry, they have things under control. Shooting at one of our NATO allies..well, after the stink people made about France and Germany blocking missile batteries for them, I think shooting at your ally is a bit more, well, shocking.

	20-03-2003 22:22									#25
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quote: How is an attack into a state your ally itself is invading an attack against the ally?

Because the "state" is Kurdistan, NOT Iraq (according to the Kurds themselves), and they WILL shoot any Turks who try to cross the border. It will be instant all-out war between an active US ally and one that's only an ally on paper.

I'm not saying the US will fire on the Turks, but the Kurds will withdraw from the front and turn US-supplied weapons on the Turks rather than the Iraquis. US troops will be fighting alone with a war raging to the north of them (where their airfields and supplies are).

And they will be royally pissed about that.

	20-03-2003 23:17									#26
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But Jack, there is no Kurdistan: the US does not recognize anything called Kurdistan. If the Kurds shoot at turks, that complicates things for the US, but the Turks, over time, are more important to the US than Kurds, plus any Kurd-turk battle will end in a Turkish victory, followed perhaps by guerilla actions by Kurds.

Also, If the Kurds decide to shoot at Turks and not Saddam's army, that is a Kurdish decision, not a Turkish one, no?

	21-03-2003 00:05									#27
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Militarily, if not diplomatically, the US "recognizes" Kurdistan. The northern front of this war is the Iraq/Kurdistan border, with Iraqui and Kurdish forces facing each other across it. Fighting is underway, with at least three Kurdish villages attacked by Iraqui helicopters today (fortunately, they were largely deserted).

There are three airfields in Kurdistan which will be used to fly in US military supplies. Kurdistan, not Turkey, is the staging area for the northern front.

At the moment, the Kurds are vulnerable. They are infantry facing tanks. They're hoping for US air strikes against those, and soon.