21-03-2003 10:51									#31
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quote: We are "a shitty little country", don't forget.

Are you aware of where my sig quote comes from?

	21-03-2003 10:55									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Ozz Against France??? Mhhh.. I wonder who has an axe to grind with France???

Algerian extremists?

	21-03-2003 10:57									#33
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I can't remember the figures, but there are several millions (on a 60 millions' population). The Muslims, nearly all Arabs (from Algeria, Morocco and Tunisia) are the most important ethnical-religious minority. They also are the only minority strongly developing a sense of community often separated with the "regular" French community. It also suffers from unemployement and daily racism.
Young Muslims were the very core of the surge of antisemitism some time ago, in the name of solidarity with the Palestinian people. By now, things have abated, notably with the work of antiracist associations who know understands this minority can be guilty of racism, and not only victims.
But a new blaze of antisemitism can happen, I fear

They are influent in domestic policies, especially since Chirac has been elected on the domestic security issue, and riots must be avoided at all costs to maintain the image of competence the government tries to show on matters of security.
However, their importance shouldn't be overstated. Avoiding an open clash within France on the Iraq issue might have been a concern of Chirac for his diplomatic stance, but it is by no means the only nor the most important reason. It was rather an opportunistic profit from the crisis, like many others.

Edit : among the 1995 terror attacks, I remember at least an Arab student has been killed. Paris' mass transit system is very much used by racial minorities (because of their financial standing, and them living mostly in the suburbs of big cities), and a terror attack will most likely kill Arabs about anywhere in Paris. Not that the lunatics care.
I remember an old racist woman told me shortly after "they kill themselves". Pathetic
EditEdit : after looking for a bit, there have been 15 dead in the attacks of 1995-1996. 4 people among the victims have Arabic names. One was an Imam.

Drake :
No idea, care to enlighten me ?

Last edited by Spiffor on 21-03-2003 at 11:05

	21-03-2003 10:58									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Timexwatch About the Palo Verde thing: Even if it was targeted, so what? The reactor housing/shielding in almost every nuclear plant is rated to withstand at least a 737 strike. What sort of damage could a terrorist really do to a nuke plant short of crashing a huge jetliner into it?

Initiate a meltdown. Possible if a team of armed terrorist take control of the facility.

	21-03-2003 11:02									#35
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That's if they know what they're doing. It's not like there's a button that says "Meltdown". There is probably a "scram the reactor" button. Initiating a meltdown requires a team effort.

	21-03-2003 11:03									#36
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quote: It was rather an opportunistic profit from the crisis, like many others.

While I fully agree with this, I think that the "French Resistance" grew over time as their goals changed. I am curious how much the domestic demographics might have had to do with the initial positions that France took as it began to oppose US policy initiatives.

	21-03-2003 11:05									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Timexwatch That's if they know what they're doing. It's not like there's a button that says "Meltdown". There is probably a "scram the reactor" button. Initiating a meltdown requires a team effort.

Such as "Hey you...turn that coolant valve to the 'off' position" ?

Just kidding...One would assume that they would train for that type mission before undertaking it.

	21-03-2003 11:09									#38
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quote: Drake : No idea, care to enlighten me ?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1721172.stm

http://www.themodernreligion.com/ji...ambassador.html

Enter "Israel is a shitty little country" into Google to read more about this proud moment in French diplomatic history...

	21-03-2003 11:12									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: Drake : No idea, care to enlighten me ? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1721172.stm Enter "Israel is a shitty little country" into Google to read more about this proud moment in French diplomatic history...

French Diplomacy strikes again!!!

	21-03-2003 11:18									#40
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Gah, just when we'd have won with a diplomatic victory at the UN, a tiny mistake will make us wait 20 turns more
Seriously, it is impressive this diplomat got away with it. He must be very good friend with people in high places

	21-03-2003 11:22									#41
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quote: He must be very good friend with people in high places

He's good friends with Chirac, much like Saddam Hussein...

	21-03-2003 11:25									#42
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Not this again. Chirac is an old politicians, one of the few who had power back in the time Saddam was sooo loved, and still at power. Except for Khomeini, everybody was just great friends with Saddam during the 80's.
Chirac is merely one of the few politicians of the 80's (heck, 70's) still rampaging in the 2000's

	21-03-2003 11:32									#43
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If Chirac doesn't care about Hussein, then why does he still insist on lying about the purpose of the Osirak reactor he sold to Saddam? Chirac lied right to Christiane Amanpour's face and claimed that it was a "civilian" reactor...

I won't even go into the sweetheart oil deals Chirac has signed with Hussein or France's efforts to undermine the UN sanctions regime...

	21-03-2003 11:39									#44
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Chirac is a liar extraoridaire. He lied to the judiciary, lied to his people, lied to his European partners, lied to the international community, continues to lie today, and will continue to lie tomorrow. I don't remember having seen him sincere just once, but I admit I'm biased and I can't stand the guy. (ah yes, he was sincere when he yelled at his bodyguards during a visit in Israel )

But the whole "Friend with Saddam" thing remains a pathetic argument. Were other countries as politically locked as France, you'd have plenty of "Friends of Saddam" worldwide, who'd have much to hide.
Seeing how Chirac waged open war with his friends in the past (he competed against same party's Balladur in the 1995 campaign, though they were "30 years friends"), the contracts he made in Iraq were definitely not out of friendship. Out of greed is a more plausible explanation.

	21-03-2003 11:44									#45
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You're right.

Hussein isn't Chirac's friend, but merely the principle strategic partner of France in the Middle East. Not much better if you ask me...

	21-03-2003 12:08									#46
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Hey, we didn't like Saddam back then, either! Us an and Khomeni.
talking about "the enemy of my enemy is my enemy".

oh, and Spiffor, just so that you know, there is quite a backlash against that statement here. One extremely popular TV host keeps saying that "The french are shitty people", too.

	21-03-2003 12:10									#47
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Can I be a TV host in Israel?

	21-03-2003 12:38									#48
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I'm sure the French and the Israelis would agree that Austria is a shitty little country. So go with that, kiss and make up, you *****.

	21-03-2003 13:02									#49
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they were probably going to hit a U.S. target in France or Italy.

but I wonder how exactly they intended on using that.