21-03-2003 20:09									#1
	Time to get the hell out of here? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

No, I don't mean 'poly...

On 3/19, just before the shooting started, the State Dept. announced that it

quote: has authorized the departure, on a voluntary basis, of family members and non-emergency personnel at the U.S. Embassy in Ankara, the U.S. Consulate General in Istanbul and the U.S. Consulates in Adana and Izmir. Due to heightened tensions and increased security concerns resulting from the current situation in the region, the Department of State warns U.S. citizens to defer non-essential travel to Turkey. U.S. citizens in Turkey should consider departing.

Now, one of my colleagues here (who has lots of embassy connections) just called me to let me know that "should consider departing" has been upgraded to "are strongly encouraged to leave," and that the ambassador is holding a public meeting with American citizens on Monday to spell out just what that means. (This will be only the second time he's ever done this; the first was after 9/11)



I don't think Saddam's going to target Turkey for anything, and any chaos on the Iraqi border will be far away from here. I also don't think that Americans are in much danger in Ankara, if only because the Turkish military wouldn't stand for that. But still...

And if we leave, my wife and I will both be unemployed in this lovely economy; we won't even have a place to live, since the house we own in the States is rented out.

Obviously we have to wait for the meeting, but this is pretty much going to kill any shot I have of sleeping this weekend. Anybody else ever found himself in this unhappy situation? When do you know it's time to bug out? Help!

	21-03-2003 20:17									#2
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Oh come on, the house is payin' for itself and yer both
adults. take 2 weeks holiday and the worst will be over.

Eithier your employer understands or does'nt give a rats
ass what happens to you, eithier way you got no future
if yer dead, so f' em and bug out now.

	21-03-2003 20:18									#3
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If you stay, it's on you.

	21-03-2003 20:23									#4
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand If you stay, it's on you.

Gee, thanks. That hadn't occurred to me.

	21-03-2003 20:26									#5
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It seems sort of odd to wait until Monday to give you the lowdown, don't you think?

There is ongoing, but failing discussions between US and Turky regarding overflight. Don't know if that will spill over into other things.

	21-03-2003 20:29									#6
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What exactly is your concern? Terrorism? Riots?

	21-03-2003 20:30									#7
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Best of luck, whatever you do, Rufus.

-Arrian

	21-03-2003 20:31									#8
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand If you stay, it's on you.

Your wife too.

	21-03-2003 20:31									#9
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I wasn't trying to particularly be a wise guy, guess that comes naturally.

Just saying, they advised. Take the advice.

	21-03-2003 20:31									#10
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I'm with the "go away on holidays" idea. come to greece!

	21-03-2003 20:33									#11
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Urely you'll have a compensation from your employer....right?

	21-03-2003 20:35									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Ozz Oh come on, the house is payin' for itself and yer both adults. take 2 weeks holiday and the worst will be over. Eithier your employer understands or does'nt give a rats ass what happens to you, eithier way you got no future if yer dead, so f' em and bug out now.

... Rufus, Ozz is right.
Just wait till monday, have your meeting, then decide together with your wife.
You can always take 2/3 weeks of holidays in Greece or in Italy then you can decide what to do based on what the situation will be.

My fingers are crossed for you...

	21-03-2003 20:37									#13
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Is Turkey going to be a more dangerous place than Kuwait?
If not then I'd stay...

	21-03-2003 20:38									#14
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Yes, I do think it's strange to wait until Monday; it seems to imply a lack of urgency which is at odds with the urgent tone of the warning. I also simply can't' fathom what the perceived threat is...and that worries me morer than anything.

I wish I could just take a couple of weeks off, as Ozz suggests, but as a professor there's really no way to do that. (edit: by which I mean that, if I cancel 2-3 weeks of classes -- in violation of Turkish law, believe it or not --I don't think I'd be asked back afterwards)

Last edited by Rufus T. Firefly on 21-03-2003 at 20:45

	21-03-2003 20:45									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly Yes, I do think it's strange to wait until Monday; it seems to imply a lack of urgency which is at odds with the urgent tone of the warning. I also simply can't' fathom what the perceived threat is...and that worries me morer than anything.

That's not hard to figure out. If what I've been reading is correct, alot of people are strongly opposed to the war, and the authorities are probably concerned that they may not be able to contain any protests. As long as there are Americans there, they will act as a potential flashpoint.

I'd say get out of there now. Pack your bags, hang out on a nice quiet beach somewhere for awhile.

	21-03-2003 20:49									#16
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Rufus, do you have any useful info on the situation across the border?

There's a mess of conflicting reports. The US has told the Turks to stay out, the US has told the Turks to go in, they're already there, they're going in, they were invited in by the Kurds, the Kurds will fight them if they go in...

	21-03-2003 20:49									#17
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Rufus, is it not you duty to lead us in a rousing rendition of
"We're going to war"
complete with dancers and chorus line

	21-03-2003 20:55									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly I wish I could just take a couple of weeks off, as Ozz suggests, but as a professor there's really no way to do that.

I worked on the railroad, and one thing i learned.

Nobody got killed and nobody got hurt, anything else is
really unimportant, cause it's replaceable.

	21-03-2003 21:27									#19
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Rufus, do you have any idea why the Turkish military is moving into northern Iraq? How is that story being reported in Turkey?

Are they there to grab land, or the northern oil fields, or to persecute Kurds, or what?

	21-03-2003 21:34									#20
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Well, I don't think your odds are worse than war correspondents, and they don't get killed that often. Then again, it is your life.

	21-03-2003 22:27									#21
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You might want to read this article:

Turkey vs USA

It's looking like Turkey might be planning on taking advantage of the situation in order to strengthen their hand. It's possible that they may soon be at odds with the US in a big way.

	22-03-2003 00:57									#22
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Thanks for the article, Willem.

Sorry, all, it's not at all clear here what the situation is at the border. I'll post if and when I learn something.

	22-03-2003 02:07									#23
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How badly are anti-American riots in Ankara? Perhaps that might help make a decision?

	22-03-2003 02:17									#24
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Yes, come to Greece, we need the tourism, but don't bother to visit your embassy.

God, it's the most hated place in the country. If I were superstitious, I would bet it is haunted.

IMO, you have nothing to fear. Neither people in Israel have anything to fear. In Kuwait, there is a 1:1.000.000 chance to be hit by a missile, so I wouldn't worry either.

	22-03-2003 02:19									#25
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Is the american embassy up in flames yet? -

	22-03-2003 02:21									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly Thanks for the article, Willem. Sorry, all, it's not at all clear here what the situation is at the border. I'll post if and when I learn something.

I've just heard on the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation that Turkey will disregard US desires and send troops into N. Iraq. It's looking like there might be a showdown between them, which is probably why they're advising you to leave. Apparently the army is not happy with the current prime minister and are flexing their muscles again.

	22-03-2003 02:34									#27
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Hmm... I'd rather expect Washington to sell out the Kurds again rather than risk a conflict with Turkey...

	22-03-2003 02:37									#28
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Rufus,
I don't think you have anything to be afraid of from Iraq.
Of course it's an opinion you'd say, but really, nothing at all.

still
50.000 turks and 80.000 kurds are now facing eachother armed in the border, but even if the **** hits the fan, it wouldn't affect you, and even if you became fed up with the tension there would still be ample time to leave.


There's another matter though that copuld be of concern and worry but it's up to you to judge.

How strong is anti-americanism in Turkey now?

In Greece is great as always but noone is going to smack down any Americans walking the street.

How about Turkey?


My guess (just visited the City ) is the people are more or less the same.
They won't take it out on you or your family.

Just a point: If your kids are going to a school with turkish kids they might hear lots of things but not be agressed IMO. Worse that could happen is they become anti-americans or just see thinsgs from a different prespective.



Just my 2 cents

Good luck in everything

	22-03-2003 02:37									#29
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Hello, paik! Katevikes sta syllalitiria?

	22-03-2003 02:41									#30
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quote: 80.000 kurds

You sure about that? last time I checked they had about 5.500 lightly armed militia.