21-03-2003 20:12									#1
	The AI -- PC vs Mac Enter the AD-FREE zone

I've seen several posts that suggest the AI is more bastardly in the Mac version of MGE (vs PC version).

In my (limited) experience, I have noted that certain diplomatic actions (most notably things like tribute, tech trading, and map trading) seem to be much more difficult to accomplish on the Mac. My source of evidence is just turnlogs from succession games.

So I wonder...

1. Has anyone ever documented this (more-evil Mac AI) phenomenon, or is it strictly anecdotal?

2. Does this apply to military matters as well?

3. How about breaking treaties/cease fires, etc? It's pretty rare that I form an alliance, but I have noticed that AI attitude seems able to drop from worshipful to enraged in just a turn or two, with no provocation.

I'm more than willing to accept that my "diplomatic technique" may leave something to be desired. But if my playing field is truly different, I'd rather concentrate on other matters and not worry so much about the diplomacy screens.

	21-03-2003 20:45									#2
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Just my impression but imho there was a big difference between the mac and pc AIs in the classic civ version (though both the early PC and Mac versions had a "kinder" diplomatic AI), in civ 2 mac classic, it's actually worthwhile to give goto orders for instance, and the automated settler thing worked better than it does with MGE. It is my belief that when civ 2 classic was ported they improved upon some AI routines...

However when MGE was released the mac version was a lot more similar to the PC version, the goto AI and automatation was now as dumb as in the PC version and so on. (Suposedly to make the versions more compatible).

As stated above the more evil AI is an MGE phenomenon not a Mac vs. PC one, in MGE the AI was made more evil, more prone to break treaties and also somewhat more agressive. Suposedly to be able to fight several human oponents better in an MP game...

The succesion game thing might be becouse some PC people use older civ versions than MGE when playing singleplayer, these would have the less agressive AI.

	21-03-2003 20:46									#3
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PC users have documented the ai reputation hits and behavior differences between the Classic version and the MGE version. If your Mac version is in fact similar to the MGE version, then you have the benefit of a slightly meaner ai, less likely to give gifts , and more likely to declare war rather than give tribute.

	21-03-2003 20:54									#4
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There are two mac versions, MGE and Classic, sorry if that wasn't clear in my post
When it comes to the diplomacy AI, they mirror the PC versions.
(however automatation AI differs in the classic versions).

	21-03-2003 21:28									#5
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I'd never read or heard anything about this - very interesting. Any reason for this being done?

	22-03-2003 02:22									#6
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I think that Smash had a few thoughts posted at CFC -- the gist was an increased challenge for the better players.

	23-03-2003 00:25									#7
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I can say the ais are identical in both platforms.2.42 is agreeable most times.MGE hates your guts from the get go.In the end,they all hate in both versions

I think its a bug caused by the ability to manually set attitudes in MP.I beleive this bit of code has caused a boo boo.Then again,we see how the ai in 2.42 can be mercilessly manipulated while in MGE,you have to put more on the table.It can still be manipulated but you have be trickier.Perhaps it was intentional!?

But it messes up many scenarios as authors intended.I can't see sacrificing such a large aspect of the game simply for an illusion of a tougher AI and so I think bug of some kind.

btw-Microprose was contacted by me, and many others I'm sure, and they basically denied there was an difference at all from 2.42 AI.

	24-03-2003 20:00									#8
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Hmm. Guess I just haven't polished my diplomatic skills very well.

Thx.