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Skywise is offline Skywise
Prince
Samara's best friend
Jan 2002
time: 05:26
  Old Post 21-03-2003 22:40
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Are the Japeneese allowed to have an army? Increase Your PM Length

I know that at the end of WW2 the Japeneese were not allowed to have an army anymore. But what about today? Do they have one? If so, how big is it? Do they have the naval power they used to have? And if they dont have an army, who defends them?

Thanks.

Spec.

Edan is offline Edan
Chieftain

Dec 2002
time: 00:26
  Old Post 21-03-2003 22:43
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They have a defensive military only, as per their post war constitution, although they do spend quite a bit of money on that military.

Also, iirc, there's a USmilitary base in Japan.

Edan is offline Edan
Chieftain

Dec 2002
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  Old Post 21-03-2003 22:47
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Military Branches: Japan Ground Self-Defense Force (Army), Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force (Navy), Japan Air Self-Defense Force (Air Force), Japanese Coast Guard

Military expenditures - dollar figure: $40,774.3 million (FY01)

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications...a.html#Military

Zero is offline Zero
King
Bouncing back and forth
Sep 2002
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  Old Post 21-03-2003 23:20
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aka, JSDF

I heard awhile ago whether Japan should defend itself completely or not. I guess its the saem old arguement w/ S.Korea. I dunno what's new on the issue.

Skywise is offline Skywise
Prince
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Jan 2002
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  Old Post 21-03-2003 23:42
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Will the be allowed to have full control of their army someday? I mean to do whatever they want and not just defend their country? Like "help" other countries that are in need?


Spec.

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
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  Old Post 21-03-2003 23:47
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They have full control of their army today, they are limiting themselves, because the horrors of war made them a bunch of peacenicks.

Skywise is offline Skywise
Prince
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Jan 2002
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  Old Post 21-03-2003 23:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Azazel
They have full control of their army today, they are limiting themselves, because the horrors of war made them a bunch of peacenicks.


Are you sure?

Frankychan is offline Frankychan
King
In the Kingdom of Hawaii (CPA Member)
Sep 2001
time: 19:26
  Old Post 22-03-2003 00:11 Visit Frankychan's homepage!
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According to their constitution, they can NEVER have war again....literally. Unless they are attacked, then they can defend themselves (i.e. JDF).

Additionally, their military is not a part of their government like the US Military is. It's more like an afterthought. The communication between the government and the JDF is limited.

Edan is offline Edan
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Dec 2002
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  Old Post 22-03-2003 00:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Frankychan
According to their constitution, they can NEVER have war again....literally. Unless they are attacked, then they can defend themselves (i.e. JDF).


They could always change their constitution. Probably not easy, but possible.

Also, they have stated that if they have evidence that North Korea is preparing to attack Japan (fueling up it's missiles, etc), they reserve the right to premptively attack North Korea.

Az is offline Az
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MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
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  Old Post 22-03-2003 00:17
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quote:

Additionally, their military is not a part of their government like the US Military is. It's more like an afterthought. The communication between the government and the JDF is limited.

That's a bad thing, you know.

Frankychan is offline Frankychan
King
In the Kingdom of Hawaii (CPA Member)
Sep 2001
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  Old Post 22-03-2003 00:20 Visit Frankychan's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Edan


They could always change their constitution. Probably not easy, but possible.

Also, they have stated that if they have evidence that North Korea is preparing to attack Japan (fueling up it's missiles, etc), they reserve the right to premptively attack North Korea.


Whoa. I didn't hear about this. Which paper says this? I gotta use it for my class.

For changing their constitution, it's been proposed before but according to my prof's., the so-called 'hardliners' in the Japanese govt are adamantly opposed to modification.

Az is offline Az
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MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
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  Old Post 22-03-2003 00:23
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Yeah, it's been around, Franky.

Zero is offline Zero
King
Bouncing back and forth
Sep 2002
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  Old Post 22-03-2003 00:24
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If that is possible with N. Korea, they are already bending it. Theoratically, you can say why not preemptively attack any other country to "protect" japan?

Edan is offline Edan
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Dec 2002
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  Old Post 22-03-2003 00:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Frankychan


Whoa. I didn't hear about this. Which paper says this? I gotta use it for my class.



Here's an article about it:
http://pacific.bizjournals.com/paci...10/daily54.html

quote:

For changing their constitution, it's been proposed before but according to my prof's., the so-called 'hardliners' in the Japanese govt are adamantly opposed to modification.


Well, I did say it wouldn't be easy - just possible.

Edan is offline Edan
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Dec 2002
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  Old Post 22-03-2003 00:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Calc II
If that is possible with N. Korea, they are already bending it. Theoratically, you can say why not preemptively attack any other country to "protect" japan?


No,premptive can be the same as defense, although it does show that they won't necessarily wait to get hit before responding - especially if you have evidence that they're going to attack. (Not doing so would be stupid policy anyway, imo. If you have proof that someone is going to attack you, you shouldn't wait until after getting hit before doing something about it)

Last edited by Edan on 22-03-2003 at 00:49

Az is offline Az
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MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
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  Old Post 22-03-2003 00:46
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quote:

If that is possible with N. Korea, they are already bending it. Theoratically, you can say why not preemptively attack any other country to "protect" japan?

Yeah, no blood for dry potatoes!

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:26
  Old Post 22-03-2003 01:49
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I always miss the threads where I could be of some use. Sorry...

BeBro is offline BeBro
King
of the Krauts
Mar 2000
time: 06:26
  Old Post 22-03-2003 01:54 Visit BeBro's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Azazel
They have full control of their army today, they are limiting themselves, because the horrors of war made them a bunch of peacenicks.


Sounds like Germany....

But somewhat better than the other way around I guess.

Chemical Ollie is offline Chemical Ollie
Prince
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Jan 2002
time: 06:26
  Old Post 22-03-2003 01:57
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Germany still has an army, hasn't it? And a very impressive one too. However, they have learned the hard way that the best army is the one that you never have to use.

Edit: You beat me to it BeBro. My 2-year old daughter was crying so I had to leave the computer for 15 minutes in the middle of writing the post, so I didn't see yours.

BeBro is offline BeBro
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Mar 2000
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  Old Post 22-03-2003 02:02 Visit BeBro's homepage!
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Yes, we have, but is has serious problems in the fields of finances, equipment etc.

There are plans to convert it from the classical cold war army into more mobile, modern forces underway, but progress is rather slow.

Az is offline Az
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MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
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  Old Post 22-03-2003 02:07
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Got spare money?

I think it's ****ing stupid. You realize you'd have to integrate THAT into that Euroarmy next.

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
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  Old Post 22-03-2003 03:01
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quote:
Sounds like Germany....


Sort of, but the Japanese haven't decided to turn their back on their American allies yet. They're loyal peaceniks...

GePap is offline GePap
King
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Nov 2001
time: 23:26
  Old Post 22-03-2003 03:52
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yeah, the NYTmes had an aricle about the German army. Germany spends the smallest amount of its GDP on defense than any other large rich western state, only 1.5% GDP. They haven't even begun to buy precision munitions yet.

Kontiki is offline Kontiki
Settler
Canada
Aug 2001
time: 00:26
  Old Post 22-03-2003 04:21
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Remember that Germany is relatively well armed because the US (and other western allies, IIRC) decided shortly after WWII that it was important to have a well-armed (West) German force to help counter the Soviet "threat". It was felt that a West German army with significant armor, but firmly locked into NATO, would be a significant obstical to a Soviet push westward. Its ability to operate beyond its borders and/or in an offensive role was greatly restricted, though, and still remains a touchy subject today (Yugoslavia, anyone?).

As for Japan, as far as I know, their military budget is limited to 1% of its GDP. Still, outside of the US, Japan probably has the most powerful and capable navy and air force in the region - not much in the way of an army, though. I do know that their air force, for example, has a sizeable number of F-15s and newer model AWACS aircraft.

Chemical Ollie is offline Chemical Ollie
Prince
Bored of this board
Jan 2002
time: 06:26
  Old Post 22-03-2003 05:24
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quote:
Originally posted by BeBro
...

There are plans to convert it from the classical cold war army into more mobile, modern forces underway, but progress is rather slow.


What's wrong with the mobility of the Leopards?


(The Swedish army recently aquired plenty of those tanks)

BeBro is offline BeBro
King
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Mar 2000
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  Old Post 22-03-2003 23:05 Visit BeBro's homepage!
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Nah, the Leo“s are excellent tanks.

It is more the general lack of modern transport capacity, modern communication systems, means for precision strikes etc, etc.

When Kontiki writes Germany was relatively well armed - this was in certain points the case, but not generally. During cold war times, everyone believed that Warsaw Pact troops would attack (if ever) with a flood of Soviet-built tanks. Therefore, we had lots of MBT“s (several thousand) as well, and quite good anti tank capabilities.

However, since the end of the cold war there wasn“t much done to equip the forces better. There are some improvements underway or expected in the near future (new A400M air transporters, Eurofighter, Eurocopter), but other problems are still not solved.

There“s also a discussion if we should change our conscript army into a purely professional army.

VJ is offline VJ
Prince
Helsinki
Dec 2001
time: 07:26
  Old Post 23-03-2003 00:45
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quote:
They have a defensive military only, as per their post war constitution, although they do spend quite a bit of money on that military.

I've read about this, also.
Spent about 0,8% of GDP into militiary, in the 80's. I except it to be pretty stable amount. Lot's of money invested, few personnel availeble.

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