22-03-2003 16:20									#91
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Jaguar Warrior almost express my thoughts completely, I also would like to add swift and as painless as possible victory.

	22-03-2003 16:34									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Don't worry. You taught me much, and I consider you as a model.

Please don't sink to his level. It would make me laugh about you.

	22-03-2003 16:44									#93
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Pro-War.

	22-03-2003 16:44									#94
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I can't believe I am the only person who voted fence sitter!

I think both sides have merit, and that only hindsight will tell us whether we made the right choice.

	22-03-2003 17:45									#95
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I've joined you. Though I am leaning to be pro-war.

	22-03-2003 17:47									#96
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" A double-minded man is unstable in all his ways."

	22-03-2003 18:06									#97
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"A witty saying proves nothing"

	22-03-2003 18:11									#98
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I like war, but THIS is a police action. And, well, I disslike police. But in few year situation would destabilise itself and I would be happy. Just now I feel somewhat strange. There is war I should be happy, but war is when both forces shooting at each other or at least attemting so. War is when planes nicely exploding with nice ball with all its bomb exploding too. War is a lot of fierce fighting. It looks more like humanitarian... I know in 1 and half or 1.9 year I would be better.

	22-03-2003 19:11									#99
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I am very troubled by this post.

Last edited by Az on 22-03-2003 at 21:21

	22-03-2003 19:30									#100
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Yes, it displays horrors in both grammar and vocabulary

	22-03-2003 20:22									#101
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Can anyone fill me in as to which countries are actually sending troops and how many.

I'm not reffering to all countries in the coalition, just the countries engaged in combat.


------------------
~Dominik - Lord of the Putumayo~

	22-03-2003 20:30									#102
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I think that those that oppose the war for humanitarian reasons are on a loosing side. This war will not kill tens of thousand while it goes on and most Iraqis do want to get rid of saddam, and you will see more pics of Iraqis celebrating the fall of the regime.

The problems come after we declare victory: how much retribution will there be? How much terrorism against the US occupaiton? how will the neighboring states deal with the occupaiton? what kind of infigthing will we have among the Iraqis? and how well will the actual terrorist, you know, the guys that killed 3000 people in one day, use this whole affair to further their aims.

As for the claims that this is an international effort... in most of those places that back us, internal support is iffy, whic means that the support is highly conditional, and most likely not long term. As long as things are easy, we have this "coolition". If things start going bad, well, expect a lot of rats jumping off.

	22-03-2003 21:11									#103
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Oh, well...

Many posters here (in all sides, including the fence-sitters) are completely honest about their thoughts. Good people. One great thing about the US (and a good reason to never burn an American Flag) is the right to protest (well, the Jazz, the blues, the writers, the movies, the democracy, my friends there... and a lot of other things are good reasons too). The government of the US is not the people of the US... I can protest against Bush without protest against the people, right? Every country in the world has morons in great quantity and nobody can deny this. In every group, religion, Government, sports team, business, school... you name it, you'll find those morons. It's a universal law...

I'm not a stupid person. Spiffor, Gepap and Sir Ralph aren't stupid. SlowwHand and Dissident aren't morons. In fact, those people (I would like to include myself ) are intelligent, sensible and well informed people (Btw, SlowwHand, I've been a fan of your lyrics threads)
Those guys are just few examples, you can extend the same for almost all others.

I do believe that pro-war people are so worried about the Iraqi people, as anti-war people are. Saddham is a horrible dictator & mass murder, no doubts about it. And, IMHO, Bush is an idiot…. So what? He’s not the first one to rule a Nation…

But war should be the last action, when everything else fails. And that's our disagreement… See my flag (I'm a brazilian, btw).

But please, don't tell me to not express my feelings 'cause my country isn't involved in that war. My country will suffer the economic consequences of the war, for instance... besides that, I belong to the human race. This war IS my business, after all. Anyway, I'm really worried about the Iraqi people, but I'm also worried about the future of the world. The UN isn't so good, but is better than nothing. After all, soon or later an US governmental decision will affect my life and my country, and I can't do nothing about it. Just like the Iraqi people. I can't vote in your elections...


I’m not trying to be a troll, I try not to offend anyone... I even try to write those posts without misspelling, without grammar mistakes (I'm not doing a good job in the last two, am I? ).

I’m sorry for the long post, and sorry about my misspellings...
But I'm not sorry for my ideas and beliefs. It's my right...

Note: Please, don’t think I am a simple minded-because the way I wrote this. It’s just bad English and lack of vocabulary…

	22-03-2003 21:25									#104
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Oh, a little cartoon about the "chase":

Attachment: alvosaddhamenglish2.jpg
This has been downloaded 75 time(s).

	22-03-2003 22:04									#105
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In response to my own question:

This is interesting.

So far I have found out that Hungary is allowing American trainers onto some of their bases where they will train Iraqi rebels.

Can anyone confirm? More information?

------------------
~Dominik - Lord of the Putumayo~

	22-03-2003 23:17									#106
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I am pro-removing Saddam Husseins regime.

Since all other methods have been tried (yes the have dammit!!! WTF do you think we have been doing the last 12 years and the last 6 months), we must remove him with force.

So in this particular instance I am pro-war. but I'm normally against war.

	05-04-2003 11:51									#107
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Hi.
I'm a noob and am probably going to get attacked harshly for this.

I am anti this war.
I do not believe that the USA and Britian (the only true members of the coalition) have the moral right or the international mandate to invade a country because they don't like its government.
In attacking Iraq these 2 countries have undermined the leadership and work that has been put into the UN over the last 50 years. Many US based pundits have claimed the UN has failed by not supporting the war. I believe that the UN has failed by not halting this war, after all over 70% of countries in the UN secuirty council are against this war. So the UN should be actively stopping this war rather than sitting idly twiddling its thumbs. (sorry i'm starting to wander off on a tangent)
Any way I personally would like Saddam Hussein to pull out some styley moves and seriously hurt the invading forces. My reasoning: The American Government, Military machine and press (propaganda machine) lack humility, lack respect for outside forces/cultures/beliefs, and have behaved in a manner condesending to massive percentage of the worlds population including Muslims (1.2 Billion) "Western" Europe (minus the British and Spainish Governments(250 million)) and The Russians (another 250 million). Such Pride must lead to a fall... ...I hope its sooner rather than later.

On a side note Saddam is a nasty dictator but there are over 50 nasty dictators all doing things as bad if not worse than Saddam... ...why the hype and action around Saddam... ...is it oil? is it Isreal? or is the American administration simply embarressed that this particular dictator was backed and helped to power by (along with the taliban I might add) by previous top end American Governemnt officals?

Oh please do not edit or delete this rant. I've heard Americans are great belivers in free speech.... ....its one of the great things about that empire...

	05-04-2003 12:07									#108
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Reasons for this war:
1. Saddam is a big bad ass. Somebody should have stood up to him long time ago.

2. We stood up to him 12 years ago, but failed to oust him. He has an arsenal and is our mortal enemy. We cannot let him have nukes.

3. There is oil in Iraq! More incentives to go after him.

4. With good oil supply secured, we no longer have to put up with those fork-tongued Saudis. Time for them to finally crack down on terrorists or else.

5. With Saddam gone, a major support for all those Palestinian crazies has dried up. If Saudis play along, peace might actually be possible.

6. If we can make Iraq prosper, that will reduce the hate level in ME dramatically. ME people will realize that playing our rules will lead to prosperity and respect, and that playing OBL or Saddam's rules will lead to poverty and humiliations.

7. Iraq's geographic location is ultra important. If hell really breaks lose in ME, NATO can deploy its armored divisions to Persian Gulf through railway (much much faster than shipping and flying around).


Reasons against this war:
1. We can still lose it.

2. I don't really trust Bush admin to resolve the aftermath well.

3. We may do something stupid.

	05-04-2003 12:16									#109
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So far, I've seen things turned out to be better than I've expected. So far. My only worry is what will happen after the war; What will the US, do, what government will take Saddam's place.

	05-04-2003 12:33									#110
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quote: 6. If we can make Iraq prosper, that will reduce the hate level in ME dramatically. ME people will realize that playing our rules will lead to prosperity and respect, and that playing OBL or Saddam's rules will lead to poverty and humiliations.

Exactly. most antiwar people use the arguement that the war will cause rampant american hatred throughout the region... and this is probably true at first, but in the long run, what you said.

	05-04-2003 13:46									#111
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quote: Originally posted by Kramerman Exactly. most antiwar people use the arguement that the war will cause rampant american hatred throughout the region... and this is probably true at first, but in the long run, what you said.

I think there are too many variables to make that call... ...over a multi generation time frame your arguement holds more stead... ...but when 5 of your family have been nailed by cluster bombs being wealthy and having the respect of and mtv addicted country doesn't mean much.

Also this is a very big if... ...if the USA can not bring prosperity to the ordinary folk in the streets of Iraq they will bring about an increased level of hatred... ...remember rising anti american sentiment is also in the interest of almost all regional players excluding Israel.

	06-04-2003 04:50									#112
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I am Anti-War

because:

There are no reason for an invasion war against Iraq and oel is not a "good" (perhaps for maniacs) reason for mass murder.

	06-04-2003 13:15									#113
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Strategic resources have always been a good reason for war, at least in human history. It began with food, today it's the oil, tomorrow it might be water.

	06-04-2003 14:08									#114
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I am of the camp of Who-Gives-A-****.

why?

1. because war was a forgone conclusion, with the way bush was rarin' to go.
2. saddam is a total jackass
3. bush and co were completely disinterested in attempting to win the hearts and minds of the world before the war, so it doesn't matter who was with us or against us
4. any military confrontation would eventually result in an american military victory
5. it's an nasty pandora's box that was going to be opened, and now that it is open, it's going to do nothing but screw everyone over for a long while.

frankly, it doesn't matter. the war was going to happen, and it will be a mistake in the long run. simple as that. there's no point to be pro-war or anti-war, because they way it was setup and structured left little or no room for any other outcome.