29-03-2003 17:13									#91
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by GeneralTacticus http://media.guardian.co.uk/iraqand...,921649,00.html A nice summary of various media reports which have turned out to be incorrect.

I guess The Guardian can't be arsed to follow up any but Western reportage.

	29-03-2003 18:21									#92
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

That deserves posting in full:

quote: Claims and counter claims made during the media war over Iraq Lisa O'Carroll, Chris Tryhorn, Annie Lawson, Jason Deans Friday March 28, 2003 Tony Blair: claimed a British soldier had been executed, but serviceman's family dispute this "Fog" is beginning to be the watchword of this war, with the lines between fact and propaganda being blurred on a daily basis. The demands of round-the-clock news means military claims are being relayed instantly to millions without being confirmed or verified only to be refuted later by reporters on the ground or by fresh military updates. In due course, questions will be asked about the clashing interests of the military and the media and the role of war propaganda in the pursuit of a swift victory against Saddam's regime. An early example of false claims relates to the battle to take control of Umm Qasr, the southern Iraqi deep-sea port and one of the key targets in the early war. On Sunday afternoon, it had been reported "taken" nine times. By Sunday night there were still ugly skirmishes between coalition forces and irregulars loyal to Saddam Hussein operating out of the old town. Umm Qasr was not, in fact, taken until Tuesday. In the last few days the fog of war rose again in Basra after premature reports of a popular uprising and a declaration by Hans Blix that there were no scud missiles fired, contradicting earlier claims. And today, Tony Blair has been caught out after upping the emotional ante by claiming a 24-year-old soldier paraded on Iraqi TV had been "executed" by Saddam's regime. His family have disputed this. Here MediaGuardian.co.uk charts the contradictory claims and counter claims made so far. Anyone who can point to other war claims that don't bear scrutiny, please email editor@mediaguardian.co.uk. MASSACRE OF TRIBESPEOPLE Claim March 27, 2pm Several hundred tribespeople are reported to have died at the hands of Iraqi forces in a village near Kirkuk, says the BBC's Jim Muir in Kurdish-controlled northern Iraq. Follow-up March 28 No further mention of the massacre - anywhere. SCUD UPDATE New challenge Thursday March 27, 17.42pm Chief UN weapons inspector Hans Blix says there is no evidence the Iraqis had used banned weapons in the week-old war. "So far we have not identified or heard from the allies that anything that was proscribed would have been used," he said. Blix's comment contradicted a statement by Kuwait's UN ambassador Mohammad Abulhasan in a letter to the security council, which claimed that at least one of 11 missiles fired by Iraq into Kuwait between Thursday and Monday was a Scud missile. SCUDS Claim Thursday, March 20, 10.15am An Iraqi Scud missile fired at US troops on the Kuwaiti border was intercepted by Patriot missiles, the US military says. Reports of Scud attacks widespread. Confession Sunday, March 23, 4.30am US general Stanley McChrystal says: "So far there have been no Scuds launched... We have found no caches of weapons of mass destruction to date." BASRA UPDATE - HOW THE UPRISING EVAPORATED Claims Wednesday, March 26, 23.01pm "Some people are saying there were demonstrations that were put down, but others say parts of Basra are now controlled by the people," said Hamed al-Bayati, Sciri's London representative, reports the Financial Times. "We're not sure who is behind it." Pan-Arab television stations on Wednesday showed footage from a quiet city. Counter claim March 26, 23.01pm But Shi'ite officials said journalists were not free to roam the streets of Basra and might have been shown areas that had indeed remained calm. Claim and counter claim Thursday, March 27, 8.51am British officials insist there was an uprising on Tuesday but a spokesman for Iraq's main Shi'ite exile opposition group said he would not go so far as to describe the unrest in that way. And British claim again Thursday, March 27, 9.32am British forces spokesman Group Captain Al Lockwood declares the city quiet following the "popular uprising" on Tuesday. BASRA UPRISING NUMBER 1 Claims Tuesday, March 25, 5.30pm Widespread media reports of a popular uprising against President Saddam Hussein in Iraq's second city of Basra, believed to have originated from military sources. Follows reports from GMTV pool reporter Richard Gaisford. Challenge Tuesday, March 25, 6.10pm British military sources say they are unable to confirm reports of any popular uprising in Basra, but reiterate that they would do everything possible to encourage and support any Iraqis planning to overthrow forces loyal to Saddam."We don't know anything about a popular uprising," said one British military source in Central Command in Qatar. 'Hallucinations' Tuesday, March 25, 7.44pm Iraq's information minister denies the reports, calling them "hallucinations". "I want to affirm to you that Basra is continuing to hold steadfast," Minister Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf told the Arabic language al-Jazeera television network. Confirmation Wednesday, March 26, 2.27am A British spokesman at US Central Command headquarters in Qatar says it appears there has been an uprising. "We don't have a clear indication of its scale or scope or where it will take us. But we will want to support it to exploit its potential. It looks like this uprising is based on the massive resentment of the population." Challenge Wednesday, March, 7.40am An Al-Jazeera reporter, who is stationed behind coalition lines in Basra, says he has no evidence of an uprising. He says the city is crawling with Iraqi military and the streets are littered with shrapnel. Claims again Wednesday, March 26, 12.30pm British prime minister Tony Blair says he believes there has been a limited uprising overnight. "In relation to what has happened in Basra overnight, truthfully reports are confused, but we believe there was some limited form of uprising," he told the House of Commons. BASRA, MARCH 25th WHEN AN HOUR IS ALONG TIME Claim Tuesday, March 25, 8.13am Reuters: "British military spokesman confirmed on Tuesday British troops were probably going to go into Basra to battle irregular fighters resisting US-led invasion forces in Iraq's second city. "We are meeting resistance from irregulars, members of the Fedayeen, who are extremely loyal to Saddam Hussein's regime," group captain Al Lockwood told CNN television. "They are lightly armed, and very small in number, but they are terrorising the citizens of Basra and we will probably need to go in and meet any resistance." Counter claim Tuesday, March 25, 9.16am Reuters: a British spokesman said on Tuesday British troops would not enter the southern city of Basra to battle irregular Iraqi fighters - contradicting an earlier statement. But the British did consider Basra a military target. "We're not going into Basra, it's simply considered a target," a British military spokesman at Central Command headquarters in Qatar told Reuters. "The reason it is a potential target is because it has an enormous political and military importance in the area." CHEMICAL WEAPONS FACTORY: NOW YOU SEE IT, NOW YOU DON'T Claims Monday, March 24, 1.33am Reports surface that US forces find first cache of Saddam's chemical and biological weapons, seizing a suspected chemical factory in An Najaf. This would be a significant PR coup for Messrs Bush and Blair who justified their launch of war on the grounds that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. Fox News and the Jerusalem Post, which had a reporter travelling with US troops, both quote unidentified Pentagon officials who said the facility was seized by US forces. About 30 Iraqi troops and their commanding general surrendered as American forces took the installation, apparently used to produce chemical weapons, according to the Jerusalem Post. It was not immediately clear what chemicals were being produced at the facility. Officials caution it is too premature to conclude that forbidden weapons had been discovered but US central command says it is examining several sites of interest. Claims Monday, March 24, 2.42am General Richard Myers, chairman of joint chiefs of staff, claims US commamdos found documents along with millions of rounds of ammunition on Saturday, saying the discovery "might save thousands of lives if we can find out exactly what they have". We're not sure Monday, March 24, 2.44pm General Tommy Franks, head of the coalition forces, claims he "wasn't entirely sure" that it was a chemical factory after all. Fox News forced to back away from the story. Iraq denies it has chemical or biological weapons. UMM QASR Claim Thursday, March 20, 7.33pm US-led troops have taken Iraqi border town of Umm Qasr, Iraq's only deep-water port in the south, wires and TV report. Counter claim TV reporters, including Mark Austin on ITV's News Channel, challenge the claims. They have it on Iraqi authority that Umm Qasr has certainly not been taken. "Iraqi troops deny anyone has surrendered." Confirmation Friday , March 21, 11.35pm Admiral Michael Boyce, chief of the British defence staff, confirms the off-the-record briefings received by media in Kuwait and southern Iraq. "Umm Qasr has been overwhelmed by the US Marines and now is in coalition hands," he says. Further confirmation Friday, March 21, just after midnight US defence secretary Donald Rumsfeld says US forces have taken Umm Qasr. The fog of war thickens. Challenge Saturday, March 22, breakfast time TV reporters on Sky and BBC say Umm Qasr have witnessed fighting and dispute claims that the port has been has been "taken". They explain the new town is under coalition control but the old town is putting up resistance and therefore Umm Qasr cannot qualify as "taken". Challenged again Sunday, March 23, 05.53am A heavy firefight breaks out between US Marines and Iraqi forces, witnesses say. Confirmation again Tuesday, March 25, 9.53am Reuters: "The southern Iraqi port town of Umm Qasr, where US and British forces have faced Iraqi resistance for days, is now "safe and open", a British commander said on Tuesday. Brigadier Jim Dutton, commander of the British Royal Marines' 3rd Commando Brigade, told reporters he hoped the first ship bringing aid to Iraq would arrive within 48 hours." NASSIRIYA Claim Saturday, March 22, 11.12pm US forces have captured Nassiriya in central Iraq, according to wire reports from Iraq. Fresh claim Sunday, March 23, 1.30am US forces say they have captured Nassiriya, international wire services report. Alternative claim Sunday, March 23, 10.21am US-led forces suffer heaviest casualties so far with stiff resistance at Nassiriya, Najaf, Basra and Umm Qasr. Exasperation begins to show Sunday, March 23, 5.50pm Defence analyst Francis Tusa says on Sky News: "We have now been told three times that Nassiriya has been captured. How many more times are we going to hear this?" Battle goes on Monday, March 24, 11.43am US Marines were still bogged down early on Monday at the southern Iraqi city of Nassiriya, the key to opening a second route north to Baghdad, after taking significant casualties there on Sunday. 51st DIVISION Claim Friday night, March 21 Wires, TV and radio report official claims that coalition commanders have accepted the surrender of the 8,000-strong 51st Iraqi infantry division near the southern city of Basra on Friday. Counter claim Sunday March 23, 10.33pm Reuters: "Iraqi officials denied US statements that the US commander of the Iraqi divison had surrendered, which US officials said on Friday." Counter claim number 2 Monday, March 24, 3.22am New York Times wire service: "US officials were quick to announce the surrender of the commander of the 51st Division. On Sunday they discovered that the 'commander' of the surrendered troops was actually a junior officer masquerading as a higher-up in an attempt to win better treatment." GRENADE ATTACKER Claim Sunday, March 23, 12.10am Ten US soldiers were wounded in an attack on Camp Pennsylvania, a military base in northern Kuwait, a US military spokesman said, without giving further details. Jim Lacey, a Time magazine correspondent who was at the camp, told CNN two grenades had been rolled into the command tent in what appeared to be a "terrorist attack". The report gives way to instant discussions of al-Qaida terrorist cells operating in Kuwait. Details of attacker change Sunday, March 23, 12.40am Sky News says the suspect for the attack is a US soldier, later revealed as Asan Akbar, who was born Mark F Kools. But the information hasn't filtered through everywhere. The BBC's Radio 5 Live still discussing the terrorist attack on the 1.00am news on Radio 5 Live.

Thanks GeneralTacitus

	30-03-2003 02:38									#93
	Put an end to popups!

True or false -

1) Busses full of Iraqi expatriates are streaming out of Jordan to Iraq. These are people who hate SH but hate the US even more and intend to fight against coalition forces.

2) The mall explosion in Kuwait City was caused by a Tomahawk missile fired by the USN from the Persian Gulf. Several Tomahawks have already hit unpopulated areas in Saudi Arabia. (wrong direction entirely).

Bonus Question - The Jordanian government will fall within a week.

	30-03-2003 03:32									#94
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Uncle Sparky True or False - *snip* 2) The mall explosion in Kuwait City was caused by a Tomahawk missile fired by the USN from the Persian Gulf. Several Tomahawks have already hit unpopulated areas in Saudi Arabia. (wrong direction entirely). *snip*

False. The damage to the pier was far too small to have been a Tomahawk, not to mention the fact that they only arm when they are within 2 nm of the target. None of the 'misfires' have detonated. The flight profile is also too low for a Tomahawk... this was obviously a sea skimmer. Also one of the metal fragments held up immediately after the attack, by one of the press had Arabic writing on it.

	30-03-2003 04:34									#95
	Remove this text

On the topic of the Iraqi missile, the Kuwatis are saying that it was fired from the Al Faw Peninsular. I thought that the Al Faw had been 'secured' in the first days of the war...

I'm wondering wether all the stories about the US 3rd Division being short of supplies are a ruse - while the 3rd Divisions supply line is long and vunerable, it's not like the US military to screw up so badly that it can only feed it's troops one meal a day as has been claimed. If the stories are true, then I hope Rumsfeld is working on his letter of resignation.

	30-03-2003 05:43									#96
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Case On the topic of the Iraqi missile, the Kuwatis are saying that it was fired from the Al Faw Peninsular. I thought that the Al Faw had been 'secured' in the first days of the war... I'm wondering wether all the stories about the US 3rd Division being short of supplies are a ruse - while the 3rd Divisions supply line is long and vunerable, it's not like the US military to screw up so badly that it can only feed it's troops one meal a day as has been claimed. If the stories are true, then I hope Rumsfeld is working on his letter of resignation.

The Silkworm is typically used two ways. In fixed emplacements, or as a ship launched device. The Iraqis have only previously employed the ship launched variant, although Iran has used it in both modes, and produced and built their own version.

Its not ideal for surface targets except as the most crude attack. It 'targetted' and hit a pier, which absorbed the majority of this attack. Fragments did fly forward for some distance, though caused relatively superficial damage to inland structures. Its targetting in this case was based on guesswork, it seemed.

How did the Iraqi's fire this weapon? Maybe a hidden PT boat, fitted with the weapon. Maybe they've developed a mobile launcher... like a truckbed launcher, or modified a similar vehicle.

It's not impossible to sneak an individual vehicle into the area, and its not a militarily significant weakness.

Maybe the Iranians fired it... They've no especial love for the Kuwaiti's.

	30-03-2003 08:20									#97
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by spiritof1202 The flight profile is also too low for a Tomahawk... this was obviously a sea skimmer.

And how do you know what the flight path of that missile was?

	30-03-2003 09:19									#98
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger And how do you know what the flight path of that missile was?

Tomahawks flight aspect is 300 feet or more. GPS waypoints designate the final attack vector.

The Silkworms flight aspect is 12 feet or less. The Silkworms final attack vector is just above sea level; exactly where the pier was hit, and that the device detonated.

The damage to the gerders support this, as they were horizontally hit and blasted and the pattern of debris skipping into the mall a couple of hundred yards further forward also demonstrate a very low horizontal attack aspect. A Tomahawk failing and diving into the pier would have thrown debris downward into the ocean.

For the Tomahawk to have done this, it could not simply fall out of the sky as the other problematic units have done, but to vector down to a very low level and then again to a horizontal flight pattern, like an "L" shape.

There is zero evidence for a Tomahawk doing this, and massive evidence that a Silkworm or Seersucker did, including actual material evidence of the fragmented weapon.

	30-03-2003 09:47									#99
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

The missile hit a shopping mall, not a pier.

	30-03-2003 09:48									#100
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Try again.

The point of contact was the pier. Debris flew into the malls facade. The pier took the brunt of the explosion.

UPDATE (to put this to bed)

http://msnbc.com/news/892361.asp?0sl=-31

quote: THE MISSILE hit a small pier jutting into the sea about 1:45 a.m. (5:45 p.m. ET Friday) close to the Souq Sharq shopping mall in the city center,

	30-03-2003 09:59									#101
	Re: Which Iraq War stories do you think are planted or false? Report them here. Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse They have been very good however at making the allies look like a bunch of bullies beating up on poor Iraq. Lots of footage of injured in hospital and so forth.

Many of the civilian casualities which Iraq and Al Jezera have been blaming on the US/UK are in fact caused by Iraq's own air defense efforts. They launch SAMs to try to down Allied planes and, once they miss (they've all missed so far), they come back down and blow up in the city.

The Iraqis and the various Arab "news" networks have to know the missiles the Iraqis fire will come back down yet they continue to insist the resulting explosions are due to Allied air strikes.

	30-03-2003 10:02									#102
	Got spare money?

Another source

quote: TV cameras showed the area where the blast apparently occurred -- at a downtown shopping mall -- was littered with mall debris.

	30-03-2003 10:13									#103
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Another source

Several more sources implicitly describing the missile as striking the pier:


http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle....storyID=2469831

http://www.boston.com/dailynews/088..._windows:.shtml

http://washingtontimes.com/national...29-27694168.htm

and from the local Kuwait News...

quote: (http://www.ktmmag.com/) Kuwait Today - News Headlines Missile Explodes Near Kuwait City Shopping Mall 29/03/03 at 08:41 A missile fired by Iraq fell into the sea and exploded near Kuwait's most popular shopping mall early Saturday, blasting out windows, according to Kuwaiti and U.S. officials. Two people sustained minor injuries, the official Kuwait News Agency reported. It was the closest that a missile has come to Kuwait City since U.S. troops based in the Persian Gulf emirate invaded neighboring Iraq on March 20. "It came from the northeast part of the Gulf. It seemed to be traveling at a very low level," so no air raid sirens sounded, Fire Chief Jassim al-Mansouri said. He said it hit a small pier that juts into the Gulf in front of the Souq Sharq mall at around 1:45 a.m., and pieces landed nearby. The multilevel shopping center on Kuwait's seafront includes department stores, restaurants, theaters and Western-style stores such as Starbucks and the Body Shop. The Information Minister, Sheikh Ahmed Fahd Al Ahmed Al Sabah, said it was believed to have been a Chinese-made Silkworm missile. He said it was the 16th missile that Iraq has fired at Kuwait since the war began.

	30-03-2003 15:04									#104
	Full PM-box? Change here!

16 missiles in 10 days...

...yep, Iraq sure was a threat to its' neighbours

	31-03-2003 06:11									#105
	Increase Your PM Length

Raw, Devastating Realities That Expose the Truth About Basra
by Robert Fisk
Independent UK

Friday 28 March 2003

Two British soldiers lie dead on a Basra roadway, a small Iraqi girl – victim of an Anglo American air strike – is brought to hospital with her intestines spilling out of her stomach, a terribly wounded woman screams in agony as doctors try to take off her black dress.

An Iraqi general, surrounded by hundreds of his armed troops, stands in central Basra and announces that Iraq's second city remains firmly in Iraqi hands. The unedited al-Jazeera videotape – filmed over the past 36 hours and newly arrived in Baghdad – is raw, painful, devastating.

It is also proof that Basra – reportedly "captured'' and "secured'' by British troops last week – is indeed under the control of Saddam Hussein's forces. Despite claims by British officers that some form of uprising has broken out in Basra, cars and buses continue to move through the streets while Iraqis queue patiently for gas bottles as they are unloaded from a government truck.

A remarkable part of the tape shows fireballs blooming over western Basra and the explosion of incoming – and presumably British – shells. The short sequence of the dead British soldiers – over which Tony Blair voiced such horror yesterday – is little different from dozens of similar clips of dead Iraqi soldiers shown on British television over the past 12 years, pictures which never drew any condemnation from the Prime Minister.

The two Britons, still in uniform, are lying on a roadway, arms and legs apart, one of them apparently hit in the head, the other shot in the chest and abdomen.

Another sequence from the same tape shows crowds of Basra civilians and armed men in civilian clothes, kicking the soldiers' British Army Jeep and dancing on top of the vehicle. Other men can be seen kicking the overturned Ministry of Defense trailer, which the Jeep was towing when it was presumably ambushed.

Also to be observed on the unedited tape – which was driven up to Baghdad on the open road from Basra – is a British pilotless drone photo-reconnaissance aircraft, its red and blue roundels visible on one wing, shot down and lying overturned on a roadway. Marked "ARMY'' in capital letters, it carries the code sign ZJ300 on its tail and is attached to a large cylindrical pod which probably contains the plane's camera.

Far more terrible than the pictures of dead British soldiers, however, is the tape from Basra's largest hospital that shows victims of the Anglo-American bombardment being brought to the operating rooms shrieking in pain.

A middle-aged man is carried into the hospital in pajamas, soaked head to foot in blood. A little girl of perhaps four is brought into the operating room on a trolley, staring at a heap of her own intestines protruding from the left side of her stomach. A blue-uniformed doctor pours water over the little girl's guts and then gently applies a bandage before beginning surgery. A woman in black with what appears to be a stomach wound cries out as doctors try to strip her for surgery. In another sequence, a trail of blood leads from the impact of an incoming – presumably British – shell. Next to the crater is a pair of plastic slippers.

The al-Jazeera tapes, most of which have never been seen, are the first vivid proof that Basra remains totally outside British control. Not only is one of the city's main roads to Baghdad still open – this is how the three main tapes reached the Iraqi capital – but General Khaled Hatem is interviewed in a Basra street, surrounded by hundreds of his uniformed and armed troops, and telling al-Jazeera's reporter that his men will "never'' surrender to Iraq's enemies. Armed Baath Party militiamen can also be seen in the streets, where traffic cops are directing lorries and buses near the city's Sheraton Hotel.

Mohamed al-Abdullah, al-Jazeera's correspondent in Basra, must be the bravest journalist in Iraq right now. In the sequence of three tapes, he can be seen conducting interviews with families under fire and calmly reporting the incoming British artillery bombardment. One tape shows that the Sheraton Hotel on the banks of Shatt al-Arab river has sustained shell damage.

On the edge of the river – beside one of the huge statues of Iraq's 1980-88 war martyrs, each pointing an accusing finger across the waterway towards Iran – Basra residents can be seen filling jerry cans from the sewage-polluted river.

Five days ago the Iraqi government said 30 civilians had been killed in Basra and another 63 wounded. Yesterday, it claimed that more than 4,000 civilians had been wounded in Iraq since the war began and more than 350 killed.

But Mr Abdullah's tape shows at least seven more bodies brought to the Basra hospital mortuary over the past 36 hours. One, his head still pouring blood on to the mortuary floor, was identified as an Arab correspondent for a Western news agency.

Other harrowing scenes show the partially decapitated body of a little girl, her red scarf still wound round her neck. Another small girl was lying on a stretcher with her brain and left ear missing. Another dead child had its feet blown away. There was no indication whether American or British ordnance had killed these children. The tapes give no indication of Iraqi military casualties.

But at a time when the Iraqi authorities will not allow Western reporters to visit Basra, this is the nearest to independent evidence we have of continued resistance in the city and the failure of the British to capture it. For days the Iraqi have been denying optimistic reports from "embedded'' reporters – especially on the BBC – who gave the impression that Basra was "secured'' or otherwise in effect under British control. This the tape conclusively proves to be untrue.

There is also a sequence showing two men, both black, who are claimed by Iraqi troops to be US prisoners of war. No questions are asked of the men, who are dressed in identical black shirts and jackets. Both appear nervous and gaze at the camera crew and Iraqi troops crowded behind them.

Of course, it is still possible that some small-scale opposition to the Iraqi regime broke out in the city over the past few days, as British officers have claimed. But, seeing the tapes, it is hard to imagine that it amounted, if it existed at all, to anything more than a brief gun battle.

The unedited reports therefore provide damaging proof that Anglo-American spokesmen have not been telling the truth about the battle for Basra. And in the end this is far more devastating to the invading armies than the sight of two dead British soldiers or – since Iraqi lives are as sacred as British lives – than the pictures of dead Iraqi children.

	31-03-2003 08:05									#106
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Robert Fisk is the best middle eastern correspondant for any western paper IMO. I strongly recomend all his work at http://www.independent.co.uk

	31-03-2003 08:33									#107
	Support Apolyton

And yet some people here say he's some kind of extremist!

	31-03-2003 09:06									#108
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Coalition of the unwilling March 31 2003 Eager to present the war on Iraq as a worldwide effort, the United States has taken to releasing, almost daily, an ever-growing list of the members of the "coalition of the willing". But the list, available on the White House website has created nearly as much confusion as it has cleared up. Some countries have disavowed membership, demanded inclusion or reacted angrily to snide commentary about their value as partners in the conflict. "It has become a logistical nightmare," said one US official. "We've created a monster that demands constant attention for consistency's sake." The most recent list of what the State Department terms the "Coalition for the Immediate Disarmament of Iraq" names 49 countries which have committed to supporting the war. This backing can range from overt military involvement (the US, Britain and Australia) to supposedly covert troop deployment (Bulgaria, the Czech Republic, Poland, Romania, Slovakia and Ukraine) to political and moral support (many small South Pacific island states). advertisement advertisement Since its birth, the roster has been plagued by problems, including Washington's claim to be supported by 15 nations that wished to remain anonymous. The existence of this secret bloc of countries - dubbed by some "the shadow coalition" - is now neither confirmed nor denied by US officials when they boast of global support. Bulgaria, which was on the first public list, decided it wanted to be anonymous and was removed, but later changed its mind, and was put back on. Iceland, which had wanted to be included, wasn't, and had to be hastily added. Responding to media reports that suggested Palau and the Marshall Islands were better holiday destinations than war partners, a Palau embassy official in Washington said: "[Only] coconuts and tapioca and scuba diving to offer? That is insulting, that is outrageous." AFP

	31-03-2003 20:43									#109
	Tired of ads?

Responding to media reports that suggested Palau and the Marshall Islands were better holiday destinations than war partners, a Palau embassy official in Washington said: "[Only] coconuts and tapioca and scuba diving to offer? That is insulting, that is outrageous."

First, the Marshall Islands. Next, the WORLD!!!

	31-03-2003 21:58									#110
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Decent possibiity that the coalition is overstating their suprise at the level of Iraqi resistence. It is to their benefit that the Iraqi leadership start to think they have a chance and attempt offensive action in larger numbers. Perhaps its wishful thinking on my part but I am still expecting/hoping some lightning strike from an unexpected direction

	31-03-2003 23:17									#111
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Robert Fisk is the best middle eastern correspondant for any western paper IMO. I strongly recomend all his work

Did you type that with a straight face? Please. We had a thread on Fisk a while back (wasn't that an AH troll? I think so. It was a good one). If you can't see the slant in what he writes, you're blind. It would be akin to viewing Foxnews as "the Truth."

-Arrian

edit: stupid typo! Mondays suck.

	31-03-2003 23:19									#112
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I thought Fisk was a columnist, not a reporter.

	31-03-2003 23:29									#113
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Bingo, Dan. A columnist with a very clear, very consistent viewpoint.

-Arrian

	01-04-2003 00:44									#114
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Robert Fisk is the best middle eastern correspondant for any western paper IMO.

Are you mad? Thomas Friedman is easily the best Middle East columnist; Fisk is just a moron...

	01-04-2003 00:59									#115
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Most columnists are drearily consistent. Just once, I'd love one of them to say, "Well, even though I've advocated X time and time again, I now realize what a dumb position that is. Screw that. From now on, I say Y not X".

The way things are now, just look at a columnist's name and the title of the article and you already know what they're gonna say.

	01-04-2003 03:39									#116
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Thomas Friedman is easily the best Middle East columnist; Fisk is just a moron...

Friedman's fairly good, but he lacks Fisk's passion and writing skills. Anyway, Fisk's prejudices match my own so IMO he's the best Middle Eastern corespondant in the business

	01-04-2003 04:13									#117
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Flubber Perhaps its wishful thinking on my part

Bingo

	01-04-2003 04:23									#118
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Friedman's fairly good, but he lacks Fisk's passion and writing skills. Anyway, Fisk's prejudices match my own so IMO he's the best Middle Eastern corespondant in the business

Whatever Friedman lacks in passion is more than made up for by his intelligent analysis.

	01-04-2003 09:51									#119
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Flubber Perhaps its wishful thinking on my part but I am still expecting/hoping some lightning strike from an unexpected direction

Most of the US troops are on the map. IIRC the 82 ABD is still holding back, but the 101 is at the front, which strikes me as odd. The 173 up North doesn't have any heavy equipment, so the most it can do is to distract.

	01-04-2003 10:14									#120
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by DanS Responding to media reports that suggested Palau and the Marshall Islands were better holiday destinations than war partners, a Palau embassy official in Washington said: "[Only] coconuts and tapioca and scuba diving to offer? That is insulting, that is outrageous." First, the Marshall Islands. Next, the WORLD!!!

OK, so what exactly else do they have to offer?