23-03-2003 01:28									#1
	The Brotherhood of Bob Remove this text

B.O.B.

This is just a rough idea I have come up with.

First, we unite with both ND and RP. We all agree to the following:

Roleplay will maintain all of the south, but agree to settle no further north.

ND will settle eastern side of bob from where they are.

GoW Settles the North.

All three will trade all techs, lux, and Resources for free for the duration of this treaty.

All three declare war and prepare to invade Vox. This may be done in stages to 'surprise' Vox by having a ND or RP fleet showing up in concert with our forces.

With Vox weakened, it will be a prime time for GS to move, attempting to take the whole of the island. We CANNOT allow that to happen. Allow them to attack Vox, sure, but all three agree to wipe out GS after Vox as well.

Once this is done. GoW and ND will recieve the land on Vox/GS island unless the whole island is larger than 50% of bob, in which case RP will be allowed some land as well.

We can end it here, or prepare a further treaty to include an invasion of Legoland. I would prefer to sign through the invasion of Legoland, since with three nations leading an invasion, it will be easier, and we would then be able to utilize the RP UU to quickly strangle all Lego resources, thus aiding in the invasion. We can easily prepare for this after GS/Vox by gaining a Tech lead over Lego with three of us researching to their one.

During the entire course of this treaty there will be a MPP pact between all three that if one of the three is attacked by another, the third party is required to declare war on the aggressor.

This will make our three teams the last ones in the game. Lego is too far to be of much help to Vox/GS right now, and will be no match if we all gain a Tech lead following the GS/Vox dismantle. Legoland will be split up prior to this invasion as well when we know more about their island.


Roleplay will agree to the deal since it gives them central land and will fit their desires (they ARE the DIA after all). We need to write in something forcing them to DEDICATE units to the assault on GS/Vox or face being in violation lest they simply decide to continue REX and be a partner in name only.


ND may be the sticking point in the deal. We need to assure them of an alliance all the way through to wiping out RP as well. This war on Vox is forcing us to delay the war on RP, so we cannot deny RP land in the south, may as well get something from it by 'allowing' them that land for now in exchange for forces in the war. Also, ND and GoW will have larger territory total than RP, likely, we can argue the point of that based on our cities will be less Palace centric than RP if need be.

This assures that ours will be the dominant civs by end of game. There will be 3 powers, GoW, ND, and RP. We have a deal with ND to make it GoW and ND as well.

We will need to run this by ND first, if we decide to attempt it. If they accept, RP will as well, Im sure.

	23-03-2003 10:18									#2
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I think that this is a good concept, but i don't think RP will go with it.

But the Brotherhood of Bob idea I like as a basic concept.
It would put in writting what we had probably all thought was an unwritten rule.

Try to get a MPP with both RP and ND that simple states what I said in the public forum:

"Any city founded on the continent of Bob that is not native to Bob would be an immediate Declaration of War on all native Bob Civs."

	23-03-2003 13:05									#3
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I would rather keep it short and sweet.
Give RP any idea's about including territory claims into the treaty and they will jump on it.

Let's see what Vox does with their settler.
They may just return home ?

	23-03-2003 18:21									#4
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Whoa, there was a meeting between Togas, Darekill, and me yesterday when Vox was all uptight about how any land that wasn't in someone's cultural area was fair game and our three teams were fairly unanimous about their leaving.

Togas reworded the treaty I suggested:

quote: (please sign and PM to both of the other nations) Treaty forming The Pact of 1075bc The undersigned nations acknowledge that in order for us to live peacefully with each other, we must have sufficient room to grow our nations. The continent of Bob is large enough to allow peaceful coexistance between all three of our nations, however, it is not large enough to allow a forth foreign nation to build or posess settlements on it. Therefore, to keep the peace on our contient and to discourage any foreign nation from settling here, we agree to the following terms: Should any civilization that is not native to Bob create or capture settlements on this continent, the undersigned agree to unite, set aside our differences, and to jointly work to remove the foreign nation using any and all means available to us which include: Embargos, Pillaging, and Warfare. The undersigned agree that this treaty supercedes all other treaties we have signed with each other and with other nations. This Treaty creates a Pact between all undersigned nations, and all nations agree to serve, in good faith, the express interests of this pact. Should any foriegn nation perform any actions which cause this Pact to be invoked, all members of the Pact shall meet and discuss how the Pact shall respond. All members shall abide by decisions made by the Pact. All undersigned nations are bound to this treaty and must give TEN TURNS notice to the other parties of this treaty that the nation wishes to leave the Pact before actually leaving the Pact. Hereby signed and agreed to by: Roleplay -- Togas, Ruler of Spain Glory of War -- Neu Demoglyptica

Is it okay for me to sign this?

Betahound from Vox and I then discussed future deals and Vox appears to be willing to enter a similiar arrangement like we have with ND. Only against GS instead of Roleplay. I agreed with them that our two teams should badmouth one another and make it appear there is much ill will to prevent other teams from realizing we plan on working together.

	23-03-2003 18:30									#5
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Togas one should be signed now and sent.

Make sure Vox does not create a city.

Send this draft to Vox if you have to...but if they settle...then the above treaty forces us into the war.

I like the idea using Vox against GS..........

But becareful...I dont trust Vox 100%
I am still not sure they dont share info with GS
This may be just a ploy to see our reaction...then feed what we say to GS.

I would not commit to anything...until they get that settler off.
Remember - They did screw Lux in the end (Although we dont know the full story.

We do not let Vox know of our ND alliance right ?
And what about letting ND know of the possibile Vox alliance ?

	23-03-2003 18:37									#6
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quote: We do not let Vox know of our ND alliance right ? And what about letting ND know of the possibile Vox alliance ?

Well, I don't like the idea of an alliance with Vox, it would be better to ally with GS against Vox. But, if we do ally with anyone else, we should wait until the deal is later on in finalizing before telling ND.

	23-03-2003 18:40									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Panzer32 Well, I don't like the idea of an alliance with Vox, it would be better to ally with GS against Vox. But, if we do ally with anyone else, we should wait until the deal is later on in finalizing before telling ND.

Apparently GS has ALL of the luxuries and good land on the continent which means Vox is far more willing to share AND Vox will allow us to have cities on the continent. GS won't. GS doesn't need us and will not be as willing to give us concessions because of that.

	23-03-2003 18:49									#8
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Great deal GF! I say sign it and sign it quick!

About a possible GoW/Vox alliance against GS:
We run everything by ND first. They might not like the idea of having two staunch and powerful nations standing together with a bumbling fool. However, keeping them around inorder to prevent GS from taking their entire continent is a great idea. If we give them some kind of tready, make it vague and have lots of loophools. These OT vermin won't realize what they agreed to...

	24-03-2003 04:07									#9
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Be careful.....

It is a good idea to align with the weak to attack the strong. With ND on board, GS would not stand a chance.

But the timing has to be right.

RP first...Vox will have to wait.

GS is already asking what our "Agreement" is with Vox. I have had email from them. They are suspicious, and it may end up that they attack Vox before our alliance can start.

But then again, Vox & GS may just be doing the same thing we are ND are doing.
Saying they don’t like each other while continuing to plot together to take over the world.

=====

GS has made it known, that if we invade Vox in a war, they will also attack Vox to deny us any cities.

I plan on telling GS, that ;

Our agreement remains confidential but it mainly had to do with the Brotherhood of Bob Treaty, and them avoiding total obliteration.
I will also tell them we agreed to not to settle each others continents. (This last bit will hopefully calm GS down a bit and let them continue with their infrastructure builds and not military)

	24-03-2003 19:22									#10
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Time to revisit this now.

It is abundantly clear that GS is either backing Vox, or Vox is a bunch of idiots. Either way, Vox must go, and we can't let GS have the whole of the island.

With RP, ND, and us we can invade all of the GS/Vox Island. I believe that we can bring around both RP and ND on this and work this arrangement to agree to the territories stated through the end of the war on GS/Vox.

If we get ND on board, I am sure I can convince Togas of the importance and wisdom of this arrangement.

	24-03-2003 19:43									#11
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I agree, but we are the closest to the island and have no idea where the resources are. I would like to have some idea where they are so they we get Iron and at least one Incense and one Fur.

	25-03-2003 02:33									#12
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GS have indicated, that as soon as we set one foot on their continent, they will invade Vox, and deny us any cities.

They wont get them all, but we will end up eyeballing each other for sure.

So if we invade Vox, plans will also need to allow for GS aggression as well.

Plus, I am still uncertain if GS is not in league with Vox. We will need strong allies to do this right, and I think ND would rather war with RP.

	25-03-2003 03:04									#13
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Fact remains, even if we only clear the invading Immortals, Vox will be weakened, and of really little use to GS ofter that. They will either attack, or simply leave them around for each free tech. We can allow neither.

ND may want RP blood, but they also know reason when they hear it. They will see what needs to be done to GS/Vox IMO.

GS attacking is GOOD for our plans. Let them weaken themselves taking Vox cities. The let RP land on their backside to split their forces.

The idea should be for us and ND to take out the invading forces. Once ND has some galley/bridges, we both invade while RP is working up at least 4 galleys filled with 2 knights/equivalent each. They sail up and when Vox is down and GS thinks they are denying us cities, ND, us, and RP all attack GS, leaving whatever, if anything, is left of Vox for later.

ND will join with the promise of more land and the removal of another opponent. What many consider the most dangerous opponent (besides ND themselves if you can read German and have seen their Demogame). RP will join for the promise of the south of Bob.

GF, perhaps we can demand a map without commiting to anything with Vox at this point?

But, do you really want to give them another turn to bring 2 more Immortals over?

	25-03-2003 04:30									#14
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I dont believe ND & RP will trust each other to leave their borders even slightly weakened.

The only way it would work, is if we agree to align ourselves with with whatever teams get attacked.

That will ensure they stay at peace, but will almost certainly ruin our agreement with ND.

To be honest, I would rather we destroy this Vox city, and then pull back from the brink of war.

We cannot conduct an intercontinental war with 1 galley and 3 horsemen....especially without a map.

	26-03-2003 00:39									#15
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Unless Vox gets an FP and several cities on Bob, they will not produce many shields here. Until they move miltary on the continent, they will be easy pickings, since GS has threatened that might be fairly soon, but with Vox's history of bad judgement, my guess is they'll build several lightly defended cities first. Let's talk to ND and RP about holding back several turns and then punishing Vox for its greed.

GS will be similiarly weak on Bob, we won't have to declare war on them immediately.

I think our battle plan should include 5 galleys, as our defensive"Coast Guard".

Last edited by realpolitic on 26-03-2003 at 00:45

	26-03-2003 01:33									#16
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Vox has offered to trade maps many times, the reason I have rejected the idea is because it only includes Vox, GS has not allowed Vox to explore any of their area. We need to determine GS's position.

It cost 60 gold to establish with GS and I would like to do that immediately upon receiving Republic. This would allow us to see their capital and its city radius.

	26-03-2003 03:55									#17
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb It cost 60 gold to establish with GS and I would like to do that immediately upon receiving Republic. This would allow us to see their capital and its city radius.

Establishing an embassy ?

Will ND, RP, Vox or even Lego share the cost ? We can send them a screenshot.

Regs

	26-03-2003 05:16									#18
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I like the treaty.

Establishing the embassy isn't worth the cost.

	26-03-2003 07:20									#19
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Realpolitic,
I think you are right about Vox being stupid enough to build more cities for us to pick apart, but the problem is that if we let Vox be this stupid, GS will take advantage of this and eliminate Vox giving them the continent. We cannot allow GS to have all of Little Bob. Unfortunately, this means that we have to support Vox once they remove their presence from Bob.