23-03-2003 03:32									#1
	What do we do on Bob? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Ok - we are clearly not welcome. All three were publicly very unfriendly - but civil. They essentially threatened to kill off any cities. Jon negotiated a turn allowing us to explore a bit - which we will do.

And - there is another poll on a new allaince with GoW which may impact this.

But for now - I see the four choices as above. I meant to leave a fifth - other - in case there are other ideas. But I forgot to type something in there.

	23-03-2003 04:29									#2
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Build on hill start walls and get more units across. that land is just as much ours as it is theirs.

	23-03-2003 05:04									#3
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I would like to see what happens with the secret alliance first. If we go with the secret alliance I would rather pull the settler back to Estonia and settle on one of our proposed city sites. We will get more out of a city there.

	23-03-2003 05:06									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by HarryH I would like to see what happens with the secret alliance first. If we go with the secret alliance I would rather pull the settler back to Estonia and settle on one of our proposed city sites. We will get more out of a city there.

That is a consideration. We will need the production. I just hate to give up our foothold.

	23-03-2003 05:21									#5
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Build on the hill and start walls.

	23-03-2003 06:47									#6
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I would think that GoW would want us on the hill anyways

that would put us on a much better place to help them if RP gets ND to attack them

Jon Miller

	23-03-2003 21:12									#7
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quote: Originally posted by BetaHound I just hate to give up our foothold.

Truely. And might I add - If we back all the way off of Bob, then we might as well throw the towel in on any chance of winning this game. Let's not break under pressure.

I say we need this foothold for our own protection.

	23-03-2003 21:58									#8
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

If we truly we go to GoW's aid in the future against ND we will want more than one city on the hill from which to launch and support an attack. Note that we have not yet seen any of their borders nor any remains of destroyed Lux cities. There is still more land out there for GoW and ND. From their description it sounds like RP has lots of land. If we take out RP then having five cities on the corner of Bob would be a small piece for them to give up.

	23-03-2003 22:15									#9
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I concur Harry. My point for the present is to get the first city settled. Once it is settled and the Bob civs realize that we're not going anywhere - we can then look towards expanding out a bit. We just don't have to do it all at once. Having one city settled is one thing, but settling 4-5 cities in a span of a few turns is quite a different story.

	24-03-2003 00:25									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I'm against the alliance unless we have horses. It may be too difficult taking GS without horses. Esp considering we are quickly entering the middle ages.

We need horses!

For both operations unfortuntely. We could use horses to defend bob settlements too . Defending bob would be hard.

Maybe we can negotiate one or two cities. We should try diplomacy. Maybe we can pay them some gold.

	24-03-2003 01:53									#11
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Having one city settled is one thing, but settling 4-5 cities in a span of a few turns is quite a different story.

I think we can quickly get a second city over there. It would be a little longer for a third. With a city at B1 or B2 and units fortified on the hills in the other location it would be a defensable barrier to protect Ost on the plains. It would not provide us a position to attack from, but I am not thinking attack yet.

quote: I'm against the alliance unless we have horses. It may be too difficult taking GS without horses. Esp considering we are quickly entering the middle ages.

And that is why if we do it we need to do it quick, before they get knights. Horsemen and chariots will not stand up to immortals. There are plenty of mountains, and probably some hills south of them, to provide a protected path for our immortals go move on. They move just as fast on them as they do in open terrain. We could put units in galleys, possibly some on both sides, to move down the coast quicker and then land in hills and mountains near their cities. Once we take a couple of cities we continue to use available hills and mountains to push into their lands. Once we trimmed their cities then we move into the open lands to take what is left. They won't have much productive cities left by that time. We could have the GoW galley move in front of us. If GS sees our galley moving south we just tell them we are chasing the GoW galley, until we land our immortals on their doorstep.

A war with GS will give us lots of productive land at the expense of our tech arrangement. A war on Bob will provide us with little but it will keep our relationship with GS intact.

	24-03-2003 02:09									#12
	Increase the size of your Attachments

is there any room for peaceful expansion?

Jon Miller

	24-03-2003 02:26									#13
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: is there any room for peaceful expansion?

I don't see it. All we have left is the narrows below Elipolis. We will not be able to expand below the mountains. I do not see the Bob civs letting us have a few cities over there. We either fight for them or we fight GS, or we take or hill island city and live out the rest of the game on north Estonia.

	24-03-2003 09:48									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

If we don't move now we will only become weaker compaired to the other civs. if we let these oppurtunity's go we may never get another chance. If we leave BOB then we may never get a new foothold. I say we stay.

	24-03-2003 17:01									#15
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quote: Originally posted by mjmacy Build on hill start walls and get more units across. that land is just as much ours as it is theirs.

So this will be "The Luxian Wars II"? This is exactly how we reasoned when we built cities and see what happened to us.

	24-03-2003 19:27									#16
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Hey, this is a great cover for our real advance, which is into GS territory.