25-03-2003 07:38									#31
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Yes, that would be a good reason but unless they line up allies who also declare war on GS I doubt GS would believe it. They know GoW can not take both Vox and GS to conquer Estonia without help.

	25-03-2003 07:41									#32
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Well it still may do the job of covering us for 1-2 turns, which it is supose to do. But they will start building units jut the same so it may not help all that much.

	25-03-2003 08:18									#33
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Wittlich But when they check the political advisor screen, it will show Vox at war with GS - not Gow at war with GS....no matter what we tell them.

Hmm - yes - right. So much for that plan. And we will want to delay the GA as long as possible. Maybe we use an archer. ???

	25-03-2003 10:24									#34
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Not sure on that. Archer would not have a good chance at winning

	25-03-2003 20:02									#35
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Here are the specific troop projections I cam up with today. After this saves production.

Currently - 3 Immortals, 3 spearmen, 5 warriors, 3 of who are down south and will be taken out of this count for now.

In 10 turns time - Wittlich - 3 warriors, maybe 4 if we mine the hill.. Miller town - 5 warriors, The Voice - 3 warriors, and one settlers. Elipolis - 2 warriors. And 3 speramen out of dissdentville.

In 10 turns - that will be 3 Immortals - and 13 warriors to be converted.

Two turns after should see 3 more (Miller Town, Wittlich, and New city)

So we will need to guage the timing of the connection of the iron and the upgrading, and the timing of our assault.

	25-03-2003 20:59									#36
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We need to make sure we have a worker ready to reconnect in time.

	26-03-2003 07:52									#37
	Increase Your PM Length

The worker should reconnect on the grassland E of Elipolis. It will take less turns than on the hill.

Beta, can you send me a new save?

	27-03-2003 00:11									#38
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Harry - forgot to send the save. Will tonight.

And yes - I see your point about rebuilding the road on the grassland tile to the east. Will be quicker. I will probably get a worker there 5 turns ahead of when we want it - then he can mine, road, and move south with the force to build more roads.

The other possibility regarding GoW - is that we have them land horsemen on the hill tile south of Elipolis. We will have tons of immortals in Elipolis - so no threat.

Then one of them can take out the warrior on the mountain - and the rest move south with us. Yes - it will look fishy - but this can follow-us getting beaten severely on the continent. And then NeuD and GoW each brought galleys and horsemen to wreak havoc on Estonia. NeuD landed in the north - and have sacked one city and are threatening the capitol. GoW landed in the centre, have cut the road and also taken out the GS warrior so he could not see what is going on. It may buy some time. We would not be at war with GS. Gs would still feel secure because their chariots could deal with a few horsemen. And GS could try some diplomacy where they say their fight is not with GS, but that they did want any soldiers left in North Estonia.

I would see them landing 4 horsemen in the north, and one galley with two heading south. Our galley goes down the east coast. Our main target is their iron supply. Oh for a map.

Thoughts?

	27-03-2003 01:03									#39
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That would delay our Golden Age, which I like. It will give us a chance to change to Republic first if we want to without wasting part of our GA in anarchy.

I also have an idea about moving a few units down to Dissidentville without being seen. I will send a pic tonight. I may be too late for the galley to get into position though.

	27-03-2003 01:25									#40
	Got spare money?

Hmm - Harry devious minds think alike. I was studying the map of south of Elipolis trying to figure out the same thing.

But you are right - 2 immortals in Dissidentville would make a world of difference. We could take out the southern warrior if he decided to block the spearmen's path onto the mountains. And if that is the first ones they saw, GS may feel somewhat relieved, until the other 15 come down the road.

I was also trying to figure out an innocent way to road the jungle tle south of Dissedentville. But I just can't come up with anything. Question - they would just see the worker there, right. Or would they know if he was clearing jungle or building a road. Clearing jungle is easy to justify - building a road less so.

	27-03-2003 03:53									#41
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quote: Originally posted by BetaHound Harry - forgot to send the save. Will tonight. And yes - I see your point about rebuilding the road on the grassland tile to the east. Will be quicker. I will probably get a worker there 5 turns ahead of when we want it - then he can mine, road, and move south with the force to build more roads. The other possibility regarding GoW - is that we have them land horsemen on the hill tile south of Elipolis. We will have tons of immortals in Elipolis - so no threat. Then one of them can take out the warrior on the mountain - and the rest move south with us. Yes - it will look fishy - but this can follow-us getting beaten severely on the continent. And then NeuD and GoW each brought galleys and horsemen to wreak havoc on Estonia. NeuD landed in the north - and have sacked one city and are threatening the capitol. GoW landed in the centre, have cut the road and also taken out the GS warrior so he could not see what is going on. It may buy some time. We would not be at war with GS. Gs would still feel secure because their chariots could deal with a few horsemen. And GS could try some diplomacy where they say their fight is not with GS, but that they did want any soldiers left in North Estonia. I would see them landing 4 horsemen in the north, and one galley with two heading south. Our galley goes down the east coast. Our main target is their iron supply. Oh for a map. Thoughts?

I really like this Idea

	27-03-2003 21:33									#42
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I think you can tell if he is building a road or clearing jugle. one he uses a shovel and the other he uses a large knife.

	27-03-2003 22:02									#43
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quote: Originally posted by mjmacy I think you can tell if he is building a road or clearing jugle. one he uses a shovel and the other he uses a large knife.

That's what I figured.

Although we could still use two workers - two separet jobs. That is completely pausible. Inefficient, but then in keeping with our 'bungling' ways.

	27-03-2003 23:20									#44
	Increase the size of your Attachments

This is an engenious plan, whould they (GS) really look close enough to find out if we are making a road, if they look we could cover with being desirous of connecting our two nations with a road.

	28-03-2003 08:30									#45
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quote: Originally posted by argha ... if they look we could cover with being desirous of connecting our two nations with a road.

This is exactly what I was thinking for a valid excuse was to why the worker is buiding a road leading south.

	28-03-2003 08:41									#46
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

If we place a unit over the wroker they will not be able to see him.

	28-03-2003 08:46									#47
	Put an end to popups!

True, but then GS would wonder why our worker needs a protective escort - so I don't think we should place a unit with the worker. Remember, we are all (Vox and GS) friends.

	28-03-2003 17:19									#48
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FINANCING OPERATION IMMORTAL BELOVED

Currently:

259 gold

Plus:

Next 8 turns at 11 gold per=88gold
100 gold from Lego as part two of deal
225 from GoW for Mono
60 from RP as cash up front for mono, const, and curr
Turns 5-8 of 2gpt for first part of Lego deal = 8
Turns 6-8 of 6 gpt as second part of deal =18

End of turn 8 we should have 758 gold, which is enough to upgrade 19 immortals .

Also - from turns 9-14, we will be earning 18 gpt, which is another 90 gold.

When our GA kicks in, this should also go up.

And there is the plan to sell GS the map of Bob for 100 gold just before the operation.

(financial forecasting by the Voxian Ecominc Council)

Last edited by Beta on 28-03-2003 at 20:26

	28-03-2003 21:12									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Wittlich True, but then GS would wonder why our worker needs a protective escort - so I don't think we should place a unit with the worker. Remember, we are all (Vox and GS) friends.

our worker needs and escort to protect him from GOW, who have a galley in the area, or have already landed

	28-03-2003 21:14									#50
	Tired of ads?

I just end everyone a pic of a route that could ferry a couple of units and get them near Dissidentville undiscovered. I have not looked at turns to see if there is enough time. It may take too long for the galley to get into position and the units to move, which will be slow without roads. We also need to consider the value in this.

	28-03-2003 21:14									#51
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Great finance, we shouldn't have to worry about money. the tricky thing could be when we need a reload, we will have to dissconnect then reconnect, this will have to be timed rather well.

	29-03-2003 01:45									#52
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Yes - it will have to be timed well. But once the initial army is on its way, we could do it then. Within 5 or 6 turns, we would have another wave set to go.

Once we are committed to this - no half measures. We pour everything into it to see it finalized.

Harry - will check out your route when we get home. It would be great if we could.

	29-03-2003 03:38									#53
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I like the route, but I don't know about Y, that mountain isn't really all that important. I would rather have both move to point X. we can move troops down the road to protect the Iron.

	29-03-2003 05:30									#54
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I was not suggesting that units move to both X and Y. I meant to only point out options of where they could move to and sit unseen until it was time to move. I know the mountain by Y is not that important but we need to consider taking out the GS warrior on the east so he does not see the galley going down the coast.

	29-03-2003 05:39									#55
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I like the route - and think we could use both x and y. We don't want to split up our forces, nor risk giving away the element of surprise - but two at x and one at y would be Good. I also see this in conjunction wit a galley with two Immortals coming from behind the y mountain - three tiles down the coast - and dropping the units off on the first mountain of the chian which runs into GS territory. On the east side - it would be good to nail that warrior - if he makes it home safe he is a swordsmen. With an immortal moving onto the mountain tile to replace our warrior, and two landing on the other mountain as I described - we should have him.

Furthemore - this will be the first immortal force they will see and may draw the defenders away from the main attack force.

The galley can go back to pick up two more units for an excursion further south.

The x warriors - as has been said above - can make sure we claim the mountains for a good defensive route into GS territory, and a direct landing on that first city.

The main force - likely 10-14 immortals will come down the main road asap.

Or do we keep our forces concentrated in one main group - with the galley and two immortals coming down the east coast?

Question - two workers will definitely follow the main force to build roads for reinforcements. Do we try and build down the mountain chain - or should we build further east and come out onto the grassland tiles? Much less time on the grasslands - but also more exposed to chariots.

It would be nice if GoW agrees to landing some horsemen to support the advance. I am heavily suggesting this idea to Ghengis, using the carrot that there should be lots of wounded chariots lying around for him to get elites and possibly a GL.

	30-03-2003 02:33									#56
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Lets get GOW to take out their Iron supply.

	30-03-2003 03:21									#57
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We should build the road into the grasslands of Dissidentville. Not the eastern ones into the dessert. There are no other borders there yet so when we take out the city that will provide some protection for the workers as we will be able to see what is in the area.

MJ, we have to find their iron supply first (assuming they have one).

	30-03-2003 03:52									#58
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Yes - we will need to road through two mountain tiles - but that will be the safest - and most direct route to the area south of Dissidentville. I see us bringing two workers to cut the road.

And as to an iron supply - they have indicated before that they do have one. I figure they must have, as they have made no effort to hook up the one near Dissidentville.

	01-04-2003 07:39									#59
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OK - for Operation Immortal Beloved to have a good chance of success, we need four things:

1. Immortals - through warriors. This is underway, and Harry's Dissidentville barracks plan gives us a way to keep them flowing.

2. Money - barring anybody backing out of a deal this turn - we will have the money.

3. Surprise.

4. Help.

Now, 3 and 4. My last quick exchange with GhengisFarb indicates that they are still on-side. They are reviewing their troop and galley commitments as per the options I ran through. But they have gotten quiet lately. The whole game has - so it may just be anatural lull. However, unless we get a clear sense that they are 100% in - we may need to re-think. Not so much that their help is critical - yes - the horsemen would help - but more that they may tell GS what is up. Same holds for NeuD.

Surprise - on the assumption that we are still on track - we will need to script out what the scenario is for the next 8-10 turns, until the baloon goes up. I will give this some thought - outline a schedule, and post it tomorrow. This will involve the made-for-TV war which will be played out in the public forum, timing of correspondence with GS, and the final moves leading up to the start of the operation.

2 down. 2 to go.

	01-04-2003 08:00									#60
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I, for one, await your outline Beta, with "baited breath!"

This should prove to be a very exciting 8-10 turns prior to all hell breaking loose!