30-12-1999 09:12									#1
	SMAC(X) In Space - why stay planet-bound? (continued) Suffering from ads?

Okay, no one mess with the HTML this time. Reposting my last post, alternate names for faqs/SPs could be:

Headquarters, 5, 0, None, Disable, Efficiency
Children's Creche, 5, 1, EthCalc, Disable, Growth/Effic/Morale
Recycling Tanks, 4, 0, Biogen, EcoEng2, Bonus Resources
Perimeter Defense, 5, 0, DocLoy, Disable, Defense +100%
Tachyon Field, 12, 2, ProbMec, Disable, All Defense +100%
Recreation Commons, 4, 1, Psych, SentEco, Fewer Drones
Energy Bank, 8, 1, IndEcon, QuanMac, Economy Bonus
Network Node, 8, 1, InfNet, HAL9000, Labs Bonus
Biology Lab, 6, 1, CentEmp, Disable, Research and PSI
Skunkworks, 6, 1, Subat, Disable, Prototypes Free
Hologram Theatre, 6, 3, PlaNets, Disable, Psych and Fewer Drones
Paradise Garden, 12, 4, SentEco, Disable, +2 Talents
Biopark Farm, 12, 3, EnvEcon, Disable, Econ/Psych/Biopark
Hybrid Biopark, 24, 4, PlaEcon, Disable, Econ/Psych/Biopark
Fusion Lab, 12, 3, Fusion, Disable, Econ and Labs Bonus
Quantum Lab, 24, 4, Quantum, Disable, Econ and Labs Bonus
Research Hospital, 12, 3, Gene, Disable, Labs and Psych Bonus
Nanohospital, 24, 4, HomoSup, Disable, Labs and Psych Bonus
Robotic Assembly Plant, 20, 4, IndRob, Disable, Minerals Bonus
Nanoreplicator, 32, 6, NanEdit, Disable, Minerals Bonus
Quantum Converter, 20, 5, QuanMac, Disable, Minerals Bonus
Genejack Factory, 10, 2, Viral, Disable, Minerals; More Drones
Punishment Sphere, 10, 2, MilAlg, Disable, No Drones/-50% Tech
Hab Complex, 8, 2, IndAuto, Disable, Increase Population Limit
Habitation Dome, 16, 4, Solids, Disable, Increase Population Limit
Gravity Dome, 8, 0, DocFlex, Disable, Gravometric Submersion/Resources
Command Center, 4, 1, Mobile, Disable, +2 Morale:Land
Naval Yard, 8, 2, DocInit, Disable, +2 Morale:Sea, Sea Def +100%
Aerospace Complex, 8, 2, DocAir, Disable, +2 Morale:Air, Air Def +100%
Bioenhancement Center, 10, 2, Neural, Disable, +2 Morale:ALL
Galactic Preserve, 10, 2, CentMed, Disable, Ecology Bonus
Temple of Galaxy, 20, 3, AlphCen, Disable, Ecology Bonus
Hypergate, 10, 2, Matter, Disable, Teleport
Covert Ops Center, 10, 2, Algor, Disable, Stronger Probe Teams
Brood Pit, 8, 2, CentGen, Disable, Police/Morale
Plasma Farm, 8, 1, PrPsych, Disable, Plasma Sea Nutrients
Subplasma Trunkline, 12, 4, PlaEcon, Disable, Plasma Sea Minerals
Thermoplasma Transducer, 8, 0, AdapEco, Disable, Plasma Sea Energy
Planetary Defense System, 12, 2, NewMiss, Disable, Missile Defense
Subspace Generator, 60, 5, SingMec, Disable, Alien Victory
Hypersynchronous Survey Pod, 16, 4, NewMiss, Disable, Increase sight\sensor bonus
Hyperspace Hydroponics Lab, 12, 0, Orbital, Disable, +1 Nutrient ALL BASES
Nessus Mining Station, 12, 0, HAL9000, Disable, +1 Minerals ALL BASES
Hyperspace Power Transmitter, 12, 0, Space, Disable, +1 Energy ALL BASES
Hyperspace Defense Pod, 12, 0, HAL9000, Disable, Missile Defense
Stockpile Energy, 0, 0, None, Disable, Minerals to Energy
The Human Genome Project, 20, 0, Biogen, Disable, +1 Talent Each Base, -1, 0, 0, 1, 1,
The Command Nexus, 20, 0, DocLoy, Disable, Command Center Each Base, 1, 2, 0,-1, 0,
The Planetary Paradigm, 20, 0, Ecology, Disable, Terraform Rate +50%, 0, 0, 0, 2, 1,
The Merchant Exchange, 20, 0, Indust, Disable, +1 Energy Each Square Here, 0, 0, 1, 2, 0,
The Empath Guild, 20, 0, CentEmp, Disable, Commlink For Every Faction, -2, 0, 0, 0, 0,
The Planetary Defense Force, 30, 0, Integ, Disable, Perimeter Defense Each Base, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0,
The Virtual World, 30, 0, PlaNets, Disable, Network Nodes Help Drones, 0, 0, 2, 0, 0,
The Galactic Transit System, 30, 0, IndAuto, Disable, New Bases Begin At Size 3, 0, 0, 0, 1, 2,
The Xenoempathy Dome, 30, 0, CentMed, Disable, Spacefungus Movement Bonus, 0,-1, 0, 0, 2,
The Neural Amplifier, 30, 0, Neural, Disable, Psi Defense +50%, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0,
The Plasmaritime Control Center, 30, 0, DocInit, Disable, Plasma Sea Movement +2; Sea Bases, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0,
The Galactic Datalinks, 30, 0, Cyber, Disable, Any Tech Known To 3 Others, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0,
The Supercollider, 30, 0, E=Mc2, Disable, Labs +100% At This Base, 0, 0, 2, 0, 0,
The Ascetic Virtues, 30, 0, PlaEcon, Disable, Pop. Limit Relaxed; +1 POLICE, 0, 0, 0, 1, 2,
The Longevity Vaccine, 30, 0, BioEng, Disable, Fewer Drones or More Profits, 0, 0, 0, 2, 1,
The Hunter-Seeker Algorithm, 30, 0, Algor, Disable, Immunity to Probe Teams, 0, 0, 2, 0, 0,
The Pholus Mutagen, 40, 0, CentGen, Disable, Ecology Bonus; Lifecycle Bonus, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1,
The Cyborg Factory, 40, 0, MindMac, Disable, Bioenh. Center Every Base, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0,
The Theory of Everything, 40, 0, Unified, Disable, Labs +100% At This Base, 0, 0, 2, 0, 0,
The Dream Twister, 40, 0, WillPow, Disable, Psi Attack +50%, 0, 1, 0, 0, 1,
The Universal Translator, 40, 0, HomoSup, Disable, Two Free Techs, 0, 1, 2, 0, 0,
The Network Backbone, 40, 0, DigSent, Disable, +1 Lab Per Commerce/Net Node, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0,
The Nano Factory, 40, 0, IndRob, Disable, Repair Units; Low Upgrade Costs, 2, 1, 0, 0, 0,
The Living Refinery, 40, 0, Space, Disable, +2 SUPPORT (social), 0, 1, 0, 1, 0,
The Cloning Vats, 50, 0, BioMac, Disable, Population Boom At All Bases, 0, 0, 0, 1, 2,
The Self-Aware Colony, 50, 0, HAL9000, Disable, Maintenance Halved; Extra Police,0, 1, 0, 2, 0,
Clinical Immortality, 50, 0, NanEdit, Disable, Extra Talent Every Base, 0, 0, 1, 1, 0,
The Hyperspace Wormhole, 50, 0, Solids, Disable, Energy +100%/Hyperspacial Costs Halved,0, 0, 2, 2, 0,
This SP creates a permanent gate into hyperspace similar to the Babylon 5 gate concept.
The Singularity Inductor, 60, 0, ConSing, Disable, Quantum Converter Every Base, 0, 1, 1, 1, 0,
The Bulk Matter Transmitter, 60, 0, Matter, Disable, +2 Minerals Every Base, 0, 1, 1, 1, 0,
The Telepathic Matrix, 60, 0, Eudaim, Disable, No More Drone Riots; +2 PROBE, 0, 1, 0, 0, 1,
The Voice of Galaxy, 60, 0, Thresh, Disable, Begins Ascent To Transcendence, 0,-2, 2, 2, 1,
The Ascent to Transcendence, 200, 0, Thresh, Disable, End of Singular Sentience Era, 0, 0, 2, 2, 2,
The Manifold Harmonics, 50, 0, SecMani, Disable, Bonus Resources In Fungus, -1, 0, 1, 2, 2,
The Nethack Terminus, 40, 0, HAL9000, Disable, Stronger Probe Teams, 0, 1, 2, 1, 1,
The Hyperspace Academy, 30, 0, MindMac, Disable, Faster/Stronger Air Units, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0,
The Galactic Energy Grid, 30, 0, AdapEco, Disable, Energy Bank At Every Base, -1, 0, 1, 2, 1,

	30-12-1999 09:49									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Native Life forms:
Mind Worms/Isles/Locusts - Space Aemeobas (is the mindworm art 3d or sprites?)
Sea Lurk - Space Lurk
Locusts - could be actual space locusts that go around and ravage bases
Fungus - nebulas? I would say asteroids, but I dont think that that large an asteroid field would exist that is larger than many star systems, and it would make since that space life forms hang around there since they are full of carbon/hydrogen/other life giving nutrients. Unless we are restricted to the Alpha Centauri system, and one land square is not one system.
Spore Launchers- life forms that launch/fling asteroids at bases.
Fungal Towers-no idea. get rid of em?
I hope I didnt forget anything...

	30-12-1999 15:49									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Those fungal towers could be something like Oort's Cloud, where new comets are born. Maybe dead or newborn stars which create "spit" matter around themselves and thus create nebulas?

	31-12-1999 09:17									#4
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AlexanderIII,

I couldn't help but notice that many of your names were rather simple and just changed a word to "hyperspace" or "galaxy." Did you do this to avoid confusion with the new names, or could you simply not think of better ones?

No offense intended if it is the latter.

	31-12-1999 15:16									#5
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I was following the KISS rule "Keep It Simple Smiley". The more familiar a new mod is to how players are used to playing, the more thay will embrace its differences and new features. The names are different enough to be realistic, but similar enough to be recognizable as a change from the old ones. Besides, with a few exceptions, I like them. the only ones I am still not satisfied with are those using an alternate word for "forest". And no offense was taken, thanks for the question.

	01-01-2000 04:47									#6
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Ahh... that's what I thought.

Some of the names did look rather simple, but I had no trouble figuring out what a "Temple of Galaxy" used to be. So I guess you're right, and it is worth it to keep them simple.

	02-01-2000 13:32									#7
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Wait a second! How would you explain the map wrapping around like the surface of a sphere? You can turn that off, yes, but I don't think there's any way to make it mandatory. Just something that spontaneously came to me; there may be a logical and simple answer I didnt think of (spacial curvature? I don't think you would notice it at the galactic level...)

Something else that spontaneously came to me, while writing the previous sentence: For some reason I think Stephen Hawking would love this.

Kamchak was Here

	03-01-2000 11:45									#8
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Kamchak - Easy answer, all you have to do is imagine your playing on a minature version of the real universe where space is curved.

I'll explain, one theory has it that if you were to travel in one direction long enough, you would end up back where you started.

	03-01-2000 12:39									#9
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Hm.

Perhaps Firaxis should take a page from the first person shooters game: isolate the engine from the data.

If that can be done, huge areas can be openned up, with all sorts of games that based on the SMAC engine coming out.

	03-01-2000 19:04									#10
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I thought you meant it was only a single galaxy. I know about the universe curving around, and the fact that there is no such thing as a straight line and all that. Using the whole universe would work perfectly, but it does seem to be a bit to... gargantuan for even this. Perhaps if you were in a spherical galaxy whose surface area curves around...

Kamchak was Here

	04-01-2000 01:39									#11
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What about the forest and the jungle? Nebulae could be the fungus squares or they could be forest squares.

------------------
To infinity, and beyond!

	04-01-2000 01:40									#12
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Urban Ranger- for the most part they have, they have supposedly used the same engine for both of their Civil War games, those work better since the terrain detail (trees, houses n stuff) is mostly 2-d, and the only thing that needs to be rendered are the regiments marching around.

	04-01-2000 03:15									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Kamchak on 01-02-2000 03:32 AM Wait a second! How would you explain the map wrapping around like the surface of a sphere? You can turn that off, yes, but I don't think there's any way to make it mandatory. Just something that spontaneously came to me; there may be a logical and simple answer I didnt think of (spacial curvature? I don't think you would notice it at the galactic level...) Something else that spontaneously came to me, while writing the previous sentence: For some reason I think Stephen Hawking would love this. Kamchak was Here

I can imagine one method for imagining how the spacetime is curved on such a galactic map representation:

1) First-off, a map is only a representation of whatever it is intending to portray, not the actual place -- in other words, the map is not the terrain.

2) Second, it seems agreed that each square represents a possible star system; a planet/base represents that that star system has been "colonized".

3) We could say that this "representation" of the galaxy, being a disk-like shape, is viewed head on which would roughly like a fuzzy rectangle with a circular blob in the middle, as opposed to from above which would look like a circle -- so the overall effect would be to see a sort of rectanglular-like representation of the galaxy intended to represent a head-on view.

And imagine, if you will, that not only is the represented model of our galaxy a head-on point of view, but a circumferal one. You take a head-on view from all around the side of the galaxy, and you come up with an open-ended cylinder, or ring. Unfold that ring/cylinder onto a flat surface, and you have a rectagular view of the galaxy. (My goodness, I think I may have come up with a new Mercator-like standard for galactic map projections! though someone at NASA has probably already thought of it.)

And of course, like a spherical representation of the world projected onto a flat surface, here we have a cylindrical representation projected onto a flat surface. So it is not such a leap to imagine how units can wrap around to the other side left and right of the map, but not top and bottom.

4) Star Systems on this representational map do not indicate their distance from the galaxy's edge, so each square/star system could be any depth into the galaxy (I wish I could illustrate with a diagram).

5) Now comes the tricky part: distances. We will have to suspend disbelief here for a moment and image that, even if in practicality under this representational model two adjacent squares could be on opposite sides of the galaxy, we will have to assume that to move from square to square visibly on the map is to travel in "normal space" by means of some sub-spacial drive, so that distances of that kind are not really a factor. Travelling by means of Drop Pods, Orbital Insertions or Psi Gates is to travel in Hyperspace so that's not a real conceptual problem either.

6) The only other problem with this model, imperfect as any map projection is, is that star-system density would have a tendancy of concentrating itself to an extreme at the centre of the map, unless we assume some convoluted mathematical-logarithmic formula that distributes star-systems evenly across the map surface (conceivably, if this were a real-life model).


And there you have your answer of how a galaxy could be represented as a rectangular map which only wraps around at the right and left edges.

	04-01-2000 03:35									#14
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Actually, scratch that last point #6: the star systems would not concentrate to the centre of the rectangular map, because there is no "centre of the galaxy" on the map. What we have here is two projections: the first, every star system in the galaxy is projected onto a screen/map that is on the circumference of the galaxy (the cylinder/ring). The second projection involves unfolding this cylindrical projection onto a flat surface, becoming the map as we know it, the second projection. So the "centre" of the galaxy is more the equator of the rectangular map than anything else. Hence, our map is a more or less accurate display of star-system distriubution.

Confused? Good; there'll be a pop quiz on galactic projection in class later this week.

	12-01-2000 10:13									#15
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Do you disable pollution? How would you explain "space" level changing if there is too much pollution, such as "space level will increase by 300 parsecs over the next 20 years". Also may need to disable melt solar shade manipulation, and melting the poles. Of course it may the fabric of space gets too thin and planets start falling out of normal space into another dimension (water level rises), or start popping into existance (water level decreases).

Salvaging Unity Power core? There was once a galactic empire in a galaxy very far away, but this empire was doomed because this galaxy was beginning to collide with another, and we are the last 7 surviving species from that great empire that left before the end using a super hyper drive ship to get us to this new galaxy.

I have no problem with planets popping out of nowhere (raising land), just make the graphic for space, (the sea), look like a small solar system, and when you get the technology to "build planets", you can make planets around the suns from the stellar debris and cosmic dust. Then why would you want to destroy planets to live on the space debris (lower land)? Maybe disable lowering land?

	04-02-2000 07:43									#16
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I give life to this thread!!

What's up with this project? Is it in production, or has it fallen silent?

	05-02-2000 23:36									#17
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Hey, AlexanderIII, shouldn't you change the names a bit? Aerospace Complex, Naval Yard, Xenoempathy dome... How'd you explain these? And I think Space Academy would be better than a hyperspace one. What about land/sea/air units? Maybe bomber/assault/interceptor?
What about sunstormes, volcanoes, terrain enhancements? Planet Busters, tectonic missiles?
Oh yeah, I've got lots of questions.
Well, this concept is really tough to be made under SMAC(x).
Good luck!

	09-02-2000 01:15									#18
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The way I see it, the naming of things is never a problem, just that it requires a little ingenuity, since you can alter all the text everywhere in the game inside the various txt files.

	10-02-2000 00:12									#19
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Representation of galaxy with map wrapping:

Alexander, good idea, but how about this: slightly modify your idea. The map represents the OUTER EDGE of the galaxy: like a thick peel of an orange. Thus, if you go all the way around the map, you are all the way around the circumference of the galaxy. This works if you just assume that you can't ever settle or travel thru the center of the galaxy because of the monster black hole: spaceships would always have to go the long way around.

The poles would be intergalactic space, or maybe Star Clusters located outside the galactic plane.

Wheathin

	26-04-2000 04:31									#23
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I think we got it the first time

Persoally, I'm quite excited about this project and think it would add a whole new feel to the game. Some chassis explinations I've thought up are as follows:


Infantry: Fighter ships. They're slower then capital ships but are more useful when attacking a planet since presision targetting is requied to disable the planet's energy shield.

Speeder: Capital ships. Move twice as fast as fighters and gain bonuses when fighing against fighters due to many small guns.

Foil: Plasma ship. An early design. Huge. Have enough internal cargo space to transport even capital ships.

Cruiser: Upgraded plasma ship. A newer model of the plasma ship, it can carry more and move faster.

Needlejet: All-purpose capital ship: A special ship that can travel in both subspace and plasma. Quick and powerful. All-purpose shields make it immune no attack by ships without the proper weapon upgrade. (AAA) However, their shielding drains the energy core, and it must refuel at a base every two turns or be stranded forever in space.

Chopper: All-purpose fighters: Similar to capital ships, these fighters can attack for a very long time. Constant exposure to space hurts the shielding, so they must return to a planet each turn if possible to avoid damage.

Gravship: Ultimate capital ship: Can travel in both plasma and subspace without damage each turn. Like the all-purpose ships, it is immune to attack against those without upgrades.

Missile: Hyperspace seeker. Fired through hyperspace, it emerges near it's target and destroys itself with no warning. Can also carry space fungus planters, gravity disrupers, and Planet Busters (in the literally since of the phrase)

Elite +1 bonus: Only the best captains can afford to upgrade their ship's engines to give it the +1 bonus.

New reactors: Shield powerups. Make enemy attacks less effective. Also, shields can cover more of the ship, allowing trasnsport's size to be increased.

Fuel nanocells: Installed in all-purpose ships as an engine upgrade.

	28-04-2000 03:53									#24
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Jasionian, your suggestions are very good. More interesting-sounding names will have to be arrived at instead of the usual chassis names, but there is lots of time for that.

I have an alternate suggestion for the +1 Elite bonus: Like the Starship Enterprise had a crew who knew how to squeeze the maximum efficiency out of the ship in any given situation (expert leaders & engineering staff), the ship actually begins to perform above the optimal specs, hence the +1 movement rating.

	05-05-2000 01:24									#26
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But isn't the SMAC map pseudo-3D?

	05-05-2000 08:04									#27
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Yes and no, mostly no. The map is just a flat projection of a circular surface, which isn't that difficult to represent. Representing true three dimensional space on a flat map requires a bit of innovation to figure out exactly what we might be seeing as far as the SMAC map translated in real-world terms. And it's not critical to the game; it just adds a bit of realism, that's all.