25-03-2003 06:02									#1
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Here is a really disturbing report about Robert Mugabe's reaction to the recent strike by the opposition in Zimbabwe.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/2881793.stm


Eyewitness: Zimbabwe torture victim

Hundreds of people say they were assaulted after the strike

Zimbabwe has seen hundreds of arrests since last week's strike, with allegations made of brutal treatment. Patricia, an official with the Movement for Democratic Change in Harare, told the BBC of her ordeal.

I was fast asleep at 1pm when I heard them knocking at my door. I thought they were thieves. The soldiers pushed the door open.

They were many, some were in civvies.

They had guns, ropes, baton sticks. They asked who Patricia was.

I said: "I am Patricia".

They took the urine from my kid and said: 'Drink it'
Patricia, MDC

They asked if I was the secretary of the MDC.

I said "Yes".

They said: "Bring your particulars of the MDC."

I said: "I don't have any."

'We want to kill her'

They said: "You are a prostitute of [MDC leader Morgan] Tsvangirai, so we are going to take this condom and put it on this gun and get it into you, because Tsvangirai is doing this to you and you enjoy having sex with him".

I told them I had never had sex with Tsvangirai and they said: "That is your boyfriend and you should suffer for this."

They put the gun inside me and they asked me if I was enjoying it.

Riot policeman in Harare flees stone-throwers
The strike was marred by violent incidents

I said: "It is painful."

They said: "It is not painful because when you have it with Tsvangirai you'll be smiling."

They forced me to make noises as though I was having sex with a man.

I did.

When my brother heard that I was being assaulted, he came out from his house to my room and said: "What is happening?"

He was told to shut up and was beaten and made to get into the toilet.

They opened the taps and water was running all over his body and asked: "Why are you living with this MDC person here? We want to kill her."

They started beating me up.

They took the urine from my kid and said: "Drink it."

I first refused but the way they were beating me and they wanted to put the gun again, so I had to drink it.

After drinking it, they said they wanted to see the urine flowing.

I said: "I don't have any urine."

They said: "We know you have it. You have to do it now before we kill you."

So I had to do the urine standing.

They said: "We want to see it flowing by your feet."

So I did.

I am afraid of meeting them again. I don't know what they will do.

They have already killed me.

I have to carry on. I just want revenge.

	25-03-2003 06:07									#2
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This is very saddening.

	25-03-2003 06:16									#3
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There is already a thread about latest events in Zimbabwe, but this news item wasn't in.

Big to Mugabe. I really hope the unrest will oust him.

	25-03-2003 06:20									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor There is already a thread about latest events in Zimbabwe, but this news item wasn't in. Big to Mugabe. I really hope the unrest will oust him.

Didn't Chirac recently host Mugabe in France?

	25-03-2003 06:20									#5
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There are some people in this world that are just plain evil. The more pain they inflict the happier it makes them. This type of thing is recorded throughout history. I have no sympathy for anyone whi intentionally tortures another human being regardless of his cause.

	25-03-2003 06:25									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi Didn't Chirac recently host Mugabe in France?

He did, during the French-African summit. IIRC, others nice lads were invited like Col. Khaddafi. I don't know for RepDem Congo or Ivory Coast though.
Oh, and if you think one second I'd defend my superhuman president, just read the last line of my sig.

	25-03-2003 06:29									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Lincoln There are some people in this world that are just plain evil. The more pain they inflict the happier it makes them. This type of thing is recorded throughout history. I have no sympathy for anyone whi intentionally tortures another human being regardless of his cause.

Does that go for U.S. agents torturing Al-Queda captives to get information out of them?

	25-03-2003 06:56									#8
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France is apparently on a winning streak....

Iraq, Zimbabwe, Libya......apparently the French seem to enjoy the company of dictators.

	25-03-2003 07:23									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi Didn't Chirac recently host Mugabe in France?

Didn't Reagan host Samuel K. Doe? Dictator of Liberia? Calling him Chairman Moe, of course...

Didn't he 'think' Mobutu of Zaire was a 'voice of good sense and good will?'

How about Zia ul-Haq?

How about all those Latin American tinpot tyrants, turning up at the White House, waiting for the man to dole out more money and arms?

Chirac is hardly the only Western leader with 'les mains sales.'

	25-03-2003 07:26									#10
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I had no idea Reagan was still President.

	25-03-2003 07:28									#11
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk I had no idea Reagan was still President.

And apparently for most of his second term neither did he.

Which has what to do with Chirac gettin' jiggy with Mugabe?

	25-03-2003 07:30									#12
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk I had no idea Reagan was still President.

I thought only an Alzheimer victim could lead America like it is now

	25-03-2003 07:31									#13
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quote: Originally posted by molly bloom Which has what to do with Chirac gettin' jiggy with Mugabe?

About as much as what Reagan did during the Cold War.

	25-03-2003 07:38									#14
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither About as much as what Reagan did during the Cold War.

Not really- the implication is that Chirac is somehow a bad person, or morally flawed, or, just behaving in a French manner, for cosying up to the likes of Mugabe.

Compared with the really deluxe versions of dictators that have graced the White House, Mugabe is small beer, especially in terms of deaths directly attributable to his government. Still, a 'cold war' is a great excuse for ignoring blatant transgressions of human rights, and infringements of international law.

	25-03-2003 07:39									#15
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quote: Originally posted by molly bloom Compared with the really deluxe versions of dictators that have graced the White House...

Troll.

.01/10

	25-03-2003 07:42									#16
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Troll. .01/10

Your love of human rights is heartening. As is your historical amnesia...

	25-03-2003 07:46									#17
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NYE :
I don't think it's a troll. Molly Bloom pointed how absurd it is to pinpoint Chirac as 'evil' because he's going in bed with despots. The only way for such a criticism not to be absurd would be to criticize the whole realpolitik as it has been waged for years, hence attack Reagan, and other "tolerant" leaders.
At least, that's how I understand it.

	25-03-2003 07:52									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor NYE : I don't think it's a troll. Molly Bloom pointed how absurd it is to pinpoint Chirac as 'evil' because he's going in bed with despots. The only way for such a criticism not to be absurd would be to criticize the whole realpolitik as it has been waged for years, hence attack Reagan, and other "tolerant" leaders. At least, that's how I understand it.

D'accord.

Vive l'entente cordiale!

	25-03-2003 08:38									#19
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Chirac has also said in the past that he considered Saddam a personal friend, so I'm not suprised he invited Mugabe the black hitler to Paris.

Wait for Carver to show up and defend Mugabe.

	25-03-2003 08:45									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor NYE : I don't think it's a troll. Molly Bloom pointed how absurd it is to pinpoint Chirac as 'evil' because he's going in bed with despots. The only way for such a criticism not to be absurd would be to criticize the whole realpolitik as it has been waged for years, hence attack Reagan, and other "tolerant" leaders. At least, that's how I understand it.

Who in this thread said Chirac is evil?

What I see is a thread where someone other than the US's sh*t is shown to stink, and one or more of the America-haters shows up to troll in an effort to deflect attention back on his pet hate.

	25-03-2003 09:02									#21
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Who in this thread said Chirac is evil? What I see is a thread where someone other than the US's sh*t is shown to stink, and one or more of the America-haters shows up to troll in an effort to deflect attention back on his pet hate.

Same old lame old. When argument fails, wheel out the 'america-hater' schtick.

That is soooo 20th Century.

F minus.

	25-03-2003 09:06									#22
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I'm just shocked the French unilaterally forced the EU to grant an exemption to the sanctions placed on Mugabe.

	25-03-2003 09:11									#23
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Our potential for arseholeness skyrockets when it comes to Africa.
Especially since our "Gaullist" president never tried to renew our outdated, postcolonial African policy. At the death of the traditional "Mr. Africa" of the Elysée few years ago, there were many talks about ending pop's African policy. But they haven't led to anything

	25-03-2003 09:12									#24
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quote: Originally posted by molly bloom Same old lame old. When argument fails, wheel out the 'america-hater' schtick. That is soooo 20th Century. F minus.

That's rich.

One could say that when the argument fails, wheel out the truely ludicrous statements. Like the one about the dictators and the White House below.

quote: Originally posted by molly bloom Compared with the really deluxe versions of dictators that have graced the White House

But don't worry sweet heart, I won't reference your own statements any more than I have to.

	25-03-2003 09:22									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Our potential for arseholeness skyrockets when it comes to Africa.

Your potential for unilateralism is almost American!

	25-03-2003 09:27									#26
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Your potential for unilateralism is almost American!

Almost ? French unilaterlaism is way superior to American unilateralism, like everything French is superior to anything American !

	25-03-2003 09:57									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Chirac has also said in the past that he considered Saddam a personal friend, so I'm not suprised he invited Mugabe the black hitler to Paris.

Since becoming president, Mugabe is directly responsible for no more than a couple hundred deaths, maximum - probably a lot fewer. That's hardly Hitler.

	25-03-2003 10:02									#28
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quote: Compared with the really deluxe versions of dictators that have graced the White House, Mugabe is small beer

That's ad hominem in addition to being unrelated to the topic at hand, so try a better argument.

I certainly hope that this resurgence receives some official condemnation from everyone (I'd be even happier to see someone really kick Mugabe's ass).

	25-03-2003 10:04									#29
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quote: Since becoming president, Mugabe is directly responsible for no more than a couple hundred deaths, maximum - probably a lot fewer. That's is hardly Hitler.

Even Hitler had to start somewhere. Besides, the fact that he is personally responsible for any such attrocities is reprehensible.

	25-03-2003 10:05									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Chirac has also said in the past that he considered Saddam a personal friend, so I'm not suprised he invited Mugabe the black hitler to Paris.

The Black Hitler!?! You're so precious, you are, really.

Let's see if we can't think of people more appropriate for that term, shall we? Let's see . . . how about, Idi Amin? No? Well then, how about America's beloved friend and ally, Mobutu Sese Seko? Then there are the Duvaliers of Haiti. The former dictator of the Dominican Republic would certainly qualify. Joseph Savimbi killed almost a million people in Angola, and he wasn't even in the government. We supported him for almost twenty years in his war against the Angolan government. How about Charles Taylor, former dicator of Liberia or Sierre Leone (I don't remember which)? How about the guys who orderd the Ruandan and Burundian genocides? How about the rebels in Sierre Leone and Liberia, who decided to hack off the limbs of a whole generation?

Mugabe is a thug, but he's small potatoes compared to some of the real monsters on that continent. I hardly even got through them all.