25-03-2003 08:11									#1
	Chat Nite - and recent developments Put an end to popups!

Wow - that was an evening and a half.

Here is what transpired. In the order that stuff occurred.

Yes - NeuD publicly declared war on us. I also contacted GhengisFarb earlier today - they were very upset that we built the city as well.

vondrack from Lego wanted to chat. From what I can tell - they had made the currency and contruction for republic trade. But they also wanted to trade us for montheism, and were upset with GS over the deal. They suspected the trade deal, but I didn't say anything. I said we also had other sources.

I wanted to help Lego out as they feel they are getting screwed in this deal. And to an extent they are.

So - we did reach agreement - which helps us out - they are going to give us 100 gold in 3 turns, and another 100 when we give them Montheism. We agree to pay back 150 in 30 turns, or an acceptable tech trade in exchange. We also get a map of Bob.

I realize this does not seem like a great deal - but it gets us gold now, and firms up Lego as an ally.

Diss and Macy were negotiating with RP , and from what I can tell the last deal looked like montheism and currency for 220 gold, payable as 11gpt for 20 turns.

And I had a chat with GoW. They say the city has got to go - and immediately. Apparently NeuD has 6 swordsmen on the move. (I think we were suppose to be impressed by this). GoW threatened to destroy the city next turn.

I got the conversation turned around to the longer term plan. GoW is not interested in the RP part. Which is fine. They doubt NeuD will be up for it. They, NeuD, are apparently involved in border issues with RP. (which RP denied by the way - more disinformation?) And it was not clear we could trust NeuD to be quiet.

Also - GoW wanted to wait until chivalry and riders. I said - way too late. It boils down to the fact that they can provide 1 galley with two horsemen in 10 turns, 3 galleys with 6hm in 15-16 turns. We give them the city. We sell them monotheism for 250 gold. They cannot sell to anyone but NeuD. I didn't tell them all the other deals were locked up as it was.

So - by the time we turns over mono - we will have received 450 gold, plus the 11 per turn boost from RP. Plus the 135 plus 13gpt we are producing now.

Also - we should push GS for the 20 gold for map making - and an emergency loan of the 75 lux gold - repayable in 20 turns to help us with our immediate military crisis.

Ghengis agreed to keep up the ruse. The story would go that they are beseiging the city - and we are putting up a fierce fight. Eventually the city falls - sooner - if a GS or RP or Lego galley shows up. And in the end we lose a lot of units defending Wittlich West. A noble fight.

But - we have to turn the city over to GoW this turn - and evacuate our forces. Their team is very upset for building it in the first place. If it wasn't for the 250 gold deal - we may as well tell GoW to take a hike. And so far - all we have seen is one horseman. There is so much posturing going on over this - and RP has been so emphatic about the military might of their neighbours - it makes me think a good part of it may be a facade. A group of spearmen and immortals could clearly hold out for awhile, if not permanently.

A wild idea I had - was to turn the tables on them. RP is clearly indifferent - and would be just as happy if we caused aggravation for the others. They said as much in the chat. If Lego and GS were to pitch in we could have a great fight and probably take a good chunk of Bob.

But the original plan is coming together - not with overwhelming military support from GS - but from a monetary perspective. We will have some 600 gold for upgrades - in addition to our current forces, and that will include the three units pulled back from Bob. We should have an even strongher force to head south - if that is what we are still comitted to doing.

See Macy's new poll. And/or comment here.

	25-03-2003 09:12									#2
	Increase the size of your Attachments

the monetary can go either way

and we are already at war with ND

I don't want to have a two front war

and ND has been agressive towards us the whole time

Jon Miller

	25-03-2003 09:12									#3
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GS is being worse to us

I am just pointing out that the monetary part would work whatever way we went

Jon Miller

	25-03-2003 09:17									#4
	Re: Chat Nite - and recent developments Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by BetaHound Wow - that was an evening and a half. Here is what transpired. In the order that stuff occurred. Yes - NeuD publicly declared war on us. I also contacted GhengisFarb earlier today - they were very upset that we built the city as well. vondrack from Lego wanted to chat. From what I can tell - they had made the currency and contruction for republic trade. But they also wanted to trade us for montheism, and were upset with GS over the deal. They suspected the trade deal, but I didn't say anything. I said we also had other sources. I wanted to help Lego out as they feel they are getting screwed in this deal. And to an extent they are. So - we did reach agreement - which helps us out - they are going to give us 100 gold in 3 turns, and another 100 when we give them Montheism. We agree to pay back 150 in 30 turns, or an acceptable tech trade in exchange. We also get a map of Bob. I realize this does not seem like a great deal - but it gets us gold now, and firms up Lego as an ally. Diss and Macy were negotiating with RP , and from what I can tell the last deal looked like montheism and currency for 220 gold, payable as 11gpt for 20 turns. And I had a chat with GoW. They say the city has got to go - and immediately. Apparently NeuD has 6 swordsmen on the move. (I think we were suppose to be impressed by this). GoW threatened to destroy the city next turn. I got the conversation turned around to the longer term plan. GoW is not interested in the RP part. Which is fine. They doubt NeuD will be up for it. They, NeuD, are apparently involved in border issues with RP. (which RP denied by the way - more disinformation?) And it was not clear we could trust NeuD to be quiet. Also - GoW wanted to wait until chivalry and riders. I said - way too late. It boils down to the fact that they can provide 1 galley with two horsemen in 10 turns, 3 galleys with 6hm in 15-16 turns. We give them the city. We sell them monotheism for 250 gold. They cannot sell to anyone but NeuD. I didn't tell them all the other deals were locked up as it was. So - by the time we turns over mono - we will have received 450 gold, plus the 11 per turn boost from RP. Plus the 135 plus 13gpt we are producing now. Also - we should push GS for the 20 gold for map making - and an emergency loan of the 75 lux gold - repayable in 20 turns to help us with our immediate military crisis. Ghengis agreed to keep up the ruse. The story would go that they are beseiging the city - and we are putting up a fierce fight. Eventually the city falls - sooner - if a GS or RP or Lego galley shows up. And in the end we lose a lot of units defending Wittlich West. A noble fight. But - we have to turn the city over to GoW this turn - and evacuate our forces. Their team is very upset for building it in the first place. If it wasn't for the 250 gold deal - we may as well tell GoW to take a hike. And so far - all we have seen is one horseman. There is so much posturing going on over this - and RP has been so emphatic about the military might of their neighbours - it makes me think a good part of it may be a facade. A group of spearmen and immortals could clearly hold out for awhile, if not permanently. A wild idea I had - was to turn the tables on them. RP is clearly indifferent - and would be just as happy if we caused aggravation for the others. They said as much in the chat. If Lego and GS were to pitch in we could have a great fight and probably take a good chunk of Bob. But the original plan is coming together - not with overwhelming military support from GS - but from a monetary perspective. We will have some 600 gold for upgrades - in addition to our current forces, and that will include the three units pulled back from Bob. We should have an even strongher force to head south - if that is what we are still comitted to doing. See Macy's new poll. And/or comment here.

I don't want to give GoW stuuff without seeing soemthing now for our gifts

we have done that too often

and we need the military support from GoW, otherwise it is not doable (two even civs would just butt heads and waste resources)

Jopn Miller

	25-03-2003 09:24									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote:
Originally posted by Togas


AHEM....

Ghengis, you should know better than to listen to Mr.Mitchell. Furthermore, you should perhaps consider not angering us with this sort of deceptive chatter.

Would you like for us to tell your new Immortal visitors what resources your nation LACKS? Hmm? Wouldn't they love to fight GoW in the Middle Ages armed with such knowledge?

Perhaps you should treat your Pact brother with a little more respect.

--Togas

Okay, sorry no more maps available. Copyright infringement issues don't you know.

response by genghis farb

Jon Miller

	25-03-2003 09:42									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

GoW claims to be attacking us

Jon Miller

	25-03-2003 10:14									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

what are we trading our free tech fro?

you know that we need to keep gaining tech also?

and with GS no longer getting it for us, we need all the help we can get

Jon Miller

	26-03-2003 07:15									#8
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Can we get GoW to send 1 galley now (10 turns), which gives us options for those chase GoW galley ideas I had, and 2 more galleys after that?

When do we get the 250 gold for Monotheism? If it is all later, can we get some up front in exchange for the city (e.g., 30 now for the city, 220 for Mono).?

	26-03-2003 08:40									#9
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I will inquire Harry. So we can plan.

Final agreement with GoW was 225 gold for Montheism. We will be at peace this turn, then back to war next.

So with the lego deal - that is 425 gold by the time we sell monotheism, along with the 150 in the treasury now, and increasing by 11-13 per turn. Plus what Diss can finalize with RP, including a possible sale of the republic. But they have to be very quiet about it.

	26-03-2003 20:05									#10
	Got spare money?

How much of that gold will we have to pay back later?

	26-03-2003 22:25									#11
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

150 to Lego - unless we incorporate it into a technology trade.