26-03-2003 08:47									#1
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These are the values listed inthe editor

	26-03-2003 09:37									#2
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For the uninitiated amongst us, how do we convert that information into Beakers needed for each tech at each map size? And can we get another of those charts for the medeival?

	26-03-2003 09:39									#3
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I believe this game is 24 beakers per base point.

	26-03-2003 09:51									#4
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I can make a Middle Ages Tech chart for you F-P.

Last edited by BigFree on 26-03-2003 at 12:07

	26-03-2003 13:01									#5
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Great- 24 beakers per base on a standard map. What about tiny/small/large/huge? This is very useful info to me for other reasons; sorry if my 'knowledge lust' is becoming too obvious.

	26-03-2003 13:17									#6
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Tiny: 16
Small: 20
Standard: 24
Large: 32
Huge: 40

	26-03-2003 22:05									#7
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Don't forget about discounts when other players have the techs.

	10-06-2003 11:11									#8
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I just have to question here:

from a threadabout research started not too long ago in Civ3-Strat, OPD reported the following:

quote: As I understand it (I could be very wrong) you have a map size factor. 160, 200, 240, 320 and 400 and a base tech cost eg pottery is 2. You multiply these two together then divide by a number depending on difficulty level. chieftan is 10 and I think it's 9,8,7,6,6. This gives you the beaker cost. for example. pottery on small map on chieftan would be (2 * 200)/ 10 = 40 beakers Then I think but am not sure that if another civ that you have contact with has the tech then you only need 2/3's the beakers. Don't know about more than one civ you know having the tech.

We are playing on a normal sized map (240) on Regent (8). From these figures each tech should cost

beakers = tech base cost x 30

Are some of OPD's figures wrong or are Aeson's?

	10-06-2003 12:10									#9
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I just got a little sick of having to guesstimate how long we had before being in the conditions we want for our War, so I went to the MoI thread and used the tech cost equation to try to get an actual numerically based estimate for howlong until we wouldneed to prepare properly.

From the figures for trade I found in the MoI thread and the assumptions that

1. we get Philosophy off CDG or CFC
2. we build no new cities apart from Horse City
3. we run at 100% science the whole time except for the turn before we are about to get the tech
4. No-one else we have contact with gets CoL or Republic before us

I calculate that we get CoL on turn 81, and Republic will take estimated another 14 turns after turn 102 (where E_T's spreadsheets run out). Over the entire time period of turn 67 (now) until 102, we run in E_T's spreadsheets at approx 23 trade per turn. From the figures I mention above from OPD, CoL takes 300 beakers and Republic 840. From Aeson's numbers the beakers are 240 and 672. Thus we can hope for Republic at better than ;

OPD's figures:MM in 3 turns +CoL in 13 turns + Rep 37 turns = 53 turns (turn 117).

Aeson's figures:MM in 3 turns + CoL in 11 turns + Rep 30 turns = 44 turns (turn 108).

Quite a long term in RL, but as far as gameplay goes not very long. How much longer, once we have reached this point, can we afford to wait to upgrade and build? I imagine we will be on near 100% tax once in Republic
to capitalise on pre-war rushing and upgrading speed.

	10-06-2003 12:20									#10
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hi ,

sometimes its intresting to play with the slider two turns before the end , ......

btw , should we not start to build up our money , slowly , and why not found any new cities , .....

have a nice day

	10-06-2003 12:24									#11
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Interesting MrWIA. In my Sims I got us Republic on turn 103.

	10-06-2003 13:15									#12
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How many new cities were founded, BF? And did you run at 100% science the whole time? Good to see that this pure, limited, by-the-numbers estimate can much up with a simulation that well.

	10-06-2003 13:48									#13
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BigFree - those numbers are already in the Science Section of the Area X thread !!

	10-06-2003 14:16									#14
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quote: Originally posted by BigFurryMonster BigFree - those numbers are already in the Science Section of the Area X thread !!

BFM - those number's have been here since way before the Science Section of the Area X thread!

This thread was bumped.

	10-06-2003 16:35									#15
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quote: Originally posted by BigFree BFM - those number's have been here since way before the Science Section of the Area X thread!

Indeed, you are correct.

Do we have the exact formula for the tech cost? It's something with "the number of civs that you've met that have the tech", but I'm not exactly sure how or what.

With this formula, Area X can discover when certain techs were discovered, if that is of interest.

	10-06-2003 17:56									#16
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It is, at least according to a post by OPD not that long ago in Civ3 Strat (I have been reviewing the entire forum since its inception for equations, interesting strats and undocumented/little known features to put together at some point)

"beakers"=map factor x base cost of tech/difficulty factor

Map Factor
Tiny 160
Small 200
Normal 200
Large 320
Huge 400

Difficulty Factor
Chieftain 10
Warlord 9
Regent 8
Monarch 7
Emperor 6
Deity 6

Base tech cost
See the editor or above tech chart of BF's.

# of Beakers = 2/3 of this total if any contacted civ already has the tech

All of this is as reported - I don't know for certain. Perhaps someone could check this?

	10-06-2003 18:01									#17
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So if this is true, meeting a second civ that has the tech doesn't affect the beaker cost? That seems hard to believe.

	10-06-2003 19:48									#18
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Well, the info must be flawed in one way or another. I am SURE that the beaker cost is calculated as the base tech cost from the editor times 24 in this game.

MWIA - how old is that post by OPD? Link?

	10-06-2003 19:53									#19
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quote: Originally posted by BigFurryMonster So if this is true, meeting a second civ that has the tech doesn't affect the beaker cost? That seems hard to believe.

No it IS affected BFM! At the end of my post - 2/3 cost if you know another civ with that tech.

vondrack - here it is http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...994#post2053994

Very recent, but as I hope I have made mention of, these figures may not be perfect, and need checking...

	10-06-2003 19:56									#20
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt No it IS affected BFM! At the end of my post - 2/3 cost if you know another civ with that tech.

Sorry - I meant (and should have typed): second other civ.

	10-06-2003 20:00									#21
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Just found another link that can answer that, BFM...

quote: Originally posted by vulture Tech buying - some details Since I've just worked out some tech pricing info for the democracy game, I thought I'd post a summary of the info here; I couldn't find the info in the archives, so possibly some of it is new. Firstly, how the cost of researching a tech varies with the number of civs you know who have that tech. If no-one else has the tech, you have to pay the full price in beakers to research the tech. If everyone one the planet has the tech, and you have contact with the, the research cost is halved. In between, the cost varies linearly with the number of civs you know who have the tech. N is the number of AI civs in a game M is the number of civs you have contact with that have a certain tech C is the base cost of the tech (as worked out from the editor info and world size) A is the adjusted cost - the actual number of beakers you need to research the tech A = C * (1 - M / (2 * N)) The formula isn't exact, although it's fairly close. So, in an eight civ game (7 AI civs), each civ you know that has the tech knocks about 7% off the research cost for that tech. Next, the cost of buying a tech from an AI civ. The basic cost in gold is 3/4 of the cost in beakers (yup, it's cheaper to buy than research). The exception is if only one civ you have contact with has the tech. In that case the swine will exploit its monopoly and charge twice as much (1.5 times the beaker cost of the tech). So if buying a tech that only one civ has will cost you 1000 gold, waiting until a second civ has it will drop the cost by more than a factor of two to something like 429 gold in an 8 civ game. So don't be in a hurry to buy techs. Thirdly, what happens when you are taking 40 turns to research a tech? The cost of buying the tech depends on how many beakers you have left to research, not on how many turns. So say you set science to zero, and one citizen to be a scientist. You produce 1 beaker per turn. Assume the tech you are researching costs 600 beakers. You will of course research it in 40 turns (unless you've modded the number). After 30 turns of research, you have amassed 30 beakers. The cost to buy it from the AI will be the cost of 570 beakers - pretty much the full cost - and not 25% of the full cost (which you might have thought, given that you are 75% of the way to getting the tech). This is the danger of using the 1 scientist trick to get a tech in 40 turns. If you suddenly need to get the tech in a hurry (due to needing to change building a wonder, or for some other reason) then you may find that you have to throw away a lot of money to get a tech that you would have finished researching in 3 turns anyway... Some of this is pretty obvious I know, but other people seemed to think that something different was pretty obvious, so I did a few tests to see what was going on, and these were the results. NOTE: I've only checked this under a limited range of conditions for ancient era techs. There is no guarantee that things work similarly in later eras, although no reason why they should be different.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...788#post1262788