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Smeagol
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Commack, NY, US
Jun 1999
time: 05:13
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No doubt this faction is overpowered. First off, let me just say that having 4 large social modifiers like this is messy and a whole lot more difficult to assess. That isn't to say that it shouldn't be done, just that it's harder to balance.
Regardless, while -2 growth and -2 planet are certainly harsh penalties, they are immediately balanced by the +3 research and +2 efficiency. And then you add in a free facility that isn't even available until late in the game, and you are way overpowered. And also immune to mind control? I'm not sure exactly how to balance this faction, but I think for sure you have to tone down the positives rather than add more negatives. I would say make it +2 research, +2 efficiency, -1 growth, -1 (or -2) planet and even give them mind control immunity. Or you could change the +2 efficiency to +1 industry. However, you're looking an awful lot like the Cyborgs either way (which is itself an unbalanced faction). If you really want to give them that robotic assembly plant, then I think the faction needs either to be reworked or to be given another significant penalty. That facility is a HUGE bonus that no one else could get until very late in the game.
[This message has been edited by Smeagol (edited March 25, 2000).]
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EternalSpark
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Vvardenfell
Feb 2000
time: 05:13
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See, this is like, good critiqin'  (and I know I can't spell it, so bugger off )
As for being like the Cyborgs, perhaps... I ain't played the expansion but I do know their makeup/ideology, and lemme tell ya that in my faction, cyborgs are NOT welcome, for certain reasons...
I too was worried that the RAP was a little too powerful early on.. that is one of the things I wasn't too sure if I should have in... I'm gonna copy and paste what you said and tinker with it a little... thanks!
Is there any way to make it so that I could set a percentage for mind control? Like, if I didn't want complete immunity, but rather, oh, 25-50% more cost for mind controlling this faction's base, can that be done?
-ES-
This is the first dynamic sig on this forum. Ain't ya proud you see it?
[This message has been edited by EternalSpark (edited March 25, 2000).]
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Smeagol
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Commack, NY, US
Jun 1999
time: 05:13
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I suppose to do that you could give them a probe bonus (a +1 Probe would make enemy probe team actions cost 50% more, for example). Gets even messier with balancing though, i think.
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EternalSpark
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Vvardenfell
Feb 2000
time: 05:13
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Yeah, that I don't want... I was looking in the faction file and there is something like "mindcontrol, 0" - if I change this to 50, what does that do? anything? make it 50/50?
-ES-
I guess I just plain ol' suck at this game, if y'all think something is overpowered and I'm getting my ass kicked using it...
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Smeagol
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Commack, NY, US
Jun 1999
time: 05:13
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Nah, if it is set to 0 that just means that they are immune. This is not a percentage or anything, just a code I guess for the game to recognize. There is no way to set a certain percentage for partial immunity to mind control.
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EternalSpark
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Vvardenfell
Feb 2000
time: 05:13
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Alrighty I did some major reworking, and I'm getting this vibe that its pretty overpowered, in different ways this time, but here we go...
Starts with Mobility
Has no built-in facilities
+3 Research (might change it back to 2)
+1 Industry
-3 Planet
Can't use Green
1 Drone for every (5 or) 6 Citizens
Immune to inneffic like the Hive
Immune to neg. effects of Cybernetic
I'm getting a vibe that the plusses here way over welm the -3 planet.. the "no green" thing and the drone cituation might be alleviating, but I am not a very good player of this game, so I don't know if doing well means my skill, or the fact that its over powered.
I might change the +1 industry to something else... something that wouldn't expose the drone problem any more (or should I?) like a negative police rating, or I might give it a -1 industry instead of a +1.
As always, I need your help.
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Smeagol
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Commack, NY, US
Jun 1999
time: 05:13
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Enigma-- No, for this faction he said bases "start with Robo Assembly Plant", not that they get it when the tech is discovered.
Eternal Spark-- I'll try to critique your new specs later this week if I get a chance-- at a glance it looks much more balanced then before but I'll have to think it over when I have more time.
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EternalSpark
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Vvardenfell
Feb 2000
time: 05:13
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*bump* just bumping this so it doesn't get lost, I still need help...
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eisduotres
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Heh, heh...Why not start with the Genejack factory? Comes with its own counterbalancing effect. :-)
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Smeagol
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Commack, NY, US
Jun 1999
time: 05:13
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Eternal-- How about...
+2 Research
+1 Industry
-2 Planet
-1 Growth
I think that would be OK. The -1 growth makes you grow a bit slower and makes the pop boom a little harder. As far as aversions go, I think Green might be more realistic (who uses Fundy, anyway?). That way you actually suffer from the -2 Planet, which can really kill you late in the game (and make for frustratingly long turns of mind worm attacks).
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sunchaser3
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charlotte, NC
Mar 2000
time: 05:13
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I have to say that I really liked the idea of the extra drone penalty for this faction. Not because of any balancing reason, but because it really fits with your theme of the megatron model. It doesn't matter what version he is, he always has problems with a section of his people being disloyal. Starscream, those spider guys, Tankor, you name it. Heck, they threw him from astrotrain in the middle of space and then fought over who would rule. And if Rumble isn't the very definition of drone (and he's one of the loyal ones) I don't know what is. Please add that back in, even if it is a little unbalancing. I't wouldn't be the decepticons without it.
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swisscheese4
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Belfast,Northern Ireland
Nov 1999
time: 05:13
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Are we talking about the Decepticons here or what?
In that case you will need the Autobots as well to be there arch enemies! Like the two Alien factions. Now what was that good guy's name again? Something Prime? Begain with an O.
Oh those loveable eighties !
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EternalSpark
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Vvardenfell
Feb 2000
time: 05:13
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quote:
Originally posted by sunchaser3 on 04-13-2000 01:20 PM
I have to say that I really liked the idea of the extra drone penalty for this faction. Not because of any balancing reason, but because it really fits with your theme of the megatron model. It doesn't matter what version he is, he always has problems with a section of his people being disloyal. Starscream, those spider guys, Tankor, you name it. Heck, they threw him from astrotrain in the middle of space and then fought over who would rule. And if Rumble isn't the very definition of drone (and he's one of the loyal ones) I don't know what is. Please add that back in, even if it is a little unbalancing. I't wouldn't be the decepticons without it.
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Wrong!
I'm not talking about the sick ugly pathetic little Megatron from G1, I'm talking about the noble, strong, powerful, and victorious Megatron from Beast Wars and Beast Machines.
quote:
+2 Research
+1 Industry
-2 Planet
-1 Growth
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When I am able to get back on my own PC and be able to play SMAC, I'll try these out - sounds good to me.
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sunchaser3
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charlotte, NC
Mar 2000
time: 05:13
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O.K. Let's talk about drones and the "noble" beast war/machine Megatron. It only took one episode for Dinobot to think he was the better leader and switch sides on Megatron, the essence of drone. Then along comes those spiders. The tarantula one tries time and again to accomplish his own agenda, often at the expense of Megatron's ultimate goal, and Black Aracnia, yep it happens again, ends up switching sides on him. Other members of his squad are just plain useless, ( Waspinator for example ) or are easily fooled, like that scorpion/cobra guy who threw in with the dronish spiders once just so he could do more "smashin". Let's move on to Beast Machines. Megatron gives sparks to three lieutinants, and almost immediatly they start to fight among themselves. Tankor ends up switching sides after he realises Megatron is going to take away his spark, and Megatron has to pull him back with some sort of virus. Then we find out Tankor is Rhinox. He fakes his own death and starts his own hidden agenda and even gets Megatron's secretary droid thingy to throw in with him. I mean Megatron programmed that thing himself. My point, the name Megatron comes with drone problems, no matter what form he is in.
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EternalSpark
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Vvardenfell
Feb 2000
time: 05:13
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I totally forgot this thread, and before I get into the faction because I need to test it a bit more -
Megatron Beast Wars/Machines won many times. G1 Megs didn't.
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Sunchaser
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Charlotte,NC,USA
Feb 2000
time: 05:13
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That's only because BW Meg didn't have to face of against the real Optimus Prime. Also, the decepticons were always outnumbered on Earth in G1. There were originally like 17 Autobots, plus the people of Earth, against 12 decepticons, and that's counting that reflector guy 3 times. It's amazing to me that Megatron got as much accomplished as he did. In BW, it was pretty much even, and in BM it is obvious that this Megatron can not be victorious even with a clear tactical advantage. The G1 Megatron could take down the BW Megatron with barely an effort. He is the ultimate weapon.
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EternalSpark
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Vvardenfell
Feb 2000
time: 05:13
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Does one need SMACX to use the Free Ability thing? If not, would it be overpowering to have Polymorphic Encyption as a free ability?>
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26-03-2000 02:48
Just look at Zack, the probe penalty hurts a bit but doesn't affect probe morale, and the extra drone only affects larger bases. The free node can help immensely with VW. The -3 planet would not be properly exploited by AI but a human player would know how to use it. If you want to alleviate the psi problem for this faction then give them a psi combat penalty. 
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