27-03-2003 00:42									#1
	manual Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

If you download galciv from their site and request a cd, they say that the game will come in a dvd case, but the manual will be a pdf file.


Now, for those who have purchased the game at a real store, does it come with a printed manual?

or is the manual in pdf regardless of whether you go to a store or download it?


thanks

	27-03-2003 01:03									#2
	Support Apolyton

yes, the retail version has a printed manual

	27-03-2003 01:10									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

This is why I am in favor of buying from retail rather than downloading. I want a hard copy of the manual, not .pdf. It's a must for me in gaming.

However, if you have the means, I suppose you could print the .pdf if you wanted.

	27-03-2003 01:17									#4
	Tired of ads?

thanks, i also prefer a printed manual.

	27-03-2003 01:37									#5
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Given the choice I'd probably take the printed manual with the retail box.

Problem is this choice only exists for Americans. The rest of the world (I'm from the UK) doesn't have a choice. We have to download.

It might hit the shelves in Europe in a month or so but I can't wait that long =)

Sith

	27-03-2003 02:30									#6
	Full PM-box? Change here!

The manual isn't something that I'm going to refer back to after reading it once (yes, I've read it) as it doesn't contain much reference material, so despite the fact that this was initially a concern for me, I don't see much of a reason to wait now. It's 46 pages, with 6 pages of credits, and at least two other pages of stuff not worth printing out, so if you've got access to a decent printer, it's not an issue.

	27-03-2003 04:35									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

only 46 pages? hmmm. Does it explain things well enough?

	27-03-2003 06:29									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by vee4473 only 46 pages? hmmm. Does it explain things well enough?

Pretty much. Far more useful than the manual to a certain other space game

	27-03-2003 07:43									#9
	Support Apolyton

I agree with The Templar, but I think it says more about the game than the manual. The manual doesn't have more than an illegible "hypothetical initial tech tree" for tech descriptions. Frankly, Java Scout's site is the best source of information on the tech tree, ships, buildings, wonders, etc. It really isn't noticably more fleshed out than the online manual at www.galciv.com/docs, it's just formatted better. There are a few things that are more fleshed out though.

From the sound of it on the GalCiv website forum, it sounds like they outsourced the manual. Someone was trying to get it translated out of Quark Express into something that they could work with.

	27-03-2003 08:18									#10
	Tired of ads?

Well I would have to say the manual is not going to do much us newbies.
I would like to see these games create a tutorial with many steps by steps for us lames and all new players.
I suspect that many of these game are returned by people that do not know how to play them. I do not mean strat, just how to move a ship, why, where.
What does this display tell you and the like.
This is why Deer Hunter sell more than any strat game, anyone can figure out how to play it and they will not get frustrated. Moo3 could have taken a lession from the tutorial in the guide for Moo1.

	27-03-2003 18:22									#11
	Suffering from ads?

The pdf manual is just a much less readable update of the online User Manual at galciv's ... 40+ page, with weird font and a clunky background, file is 54 MB !!!

It gives basics, no reference data nor strategy/play tips.
Enough to start to play, but not all screens are explained.
Some community ppl are doing a cleaner, indexed pdf and a Word version.
This manual is my only gripe with the game for now... These guys made Civ2.5 in Space, they should have made an old-style big good book!

	29-03-2003 21:07									#12
	Got spare money?

"I suspect that many of these game are returned by people that do not know how to play them. I do not mean strat, just how to move a ship, why, where. What does this display tell you and the like."

I could not agree more. I am at the moment very frustrated because I do not know how to move ships and I have had to learn most of what I have learned about the game from the forums.

Some of my ships seem to just sit in between stars and never move again. They are on Autopilot. The manual says nothing about Autopilot. Looks like Autopark to me. I have ships constructed by Mitrosoft but they never show up, not in any solar system. I still get charged, though, and yes I pressed the Accept button and heard the cash register do its thing.

One colony ship got to a star and refused to move thereafter no matter what I did. The star had no planets so maybe the game got confused. Or maybe the colony ship was out of fuel? Is there a fuel indicator for ships? How do you refuel them if there is? The manual does not say. There is very little in-game assistance.

The printed manual is surprisingly little help. Generally speaking, it's generally speaking ... with nothing very specific except for hot key commands and the planet colonization list.

I predict that user satisfaction is going to drop rapidly with this game and a lot of people are going to return it and it is such a shame. If only Stardock could have spent a couple of days on a manual for people who had never seen the program before! I think they were so much in the mode of dialoguing with their development players they simply forgot to consider that there were people in the rest of the world who would not consider ship handling "obvious."

When you sell a game at retail in a shrink wrap box you must presume that the vast majority of customers have not been looking over your shoulder during the entire development phase and that they are not going to want to hang out on your forums over a period of days or weeks in the hopes of finding crumbs of information that might some day let them get the game off the ground.

I have about 20 hours in GalCiv at the time of this post and I still cannot make it work.

I admit that I am somewhat obtuse, an eternal newbie. But I did not have half this much trouble with MOO3 and that is a horrible thing to say about GalCiv, I know. But MOO3 did come with good documentation and GalCiv does not come with even marginally acceptable documentation. I wish StarDock would take a look at the .pdf manual that comes with MOO2 on disk and use that as a guideline and standard for the information that they should be providing their customers.

I now feel about GalCiv the way I felt about MOO3 in the first three hours. I know there is a game here somewhere if only I could figure out how to make it work.

I am so frustrated.

	29-03-2003 21:34									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

have you see the "survival guide"? there is link to it in the galciv folder in your start menu

quote: Left clicking on a ship selects it. Right clicking on the map sends it on its destination. Clicking on space and holding down the left mouse button will “grip” space and allow you to adjust your view. Holding down the Control key (Ctrl) while left clicking on multiple ships will allow you to select multiple ships. Holding down the Shift key while left click-dragging on the map will allow you to also do the same. Double clicking on a ship, anomaly, resource or starbase will bring up additional information on that object. Double clicking on a star will bring up the planetary management screen for the first colonized planet you control

	29-03-2003 21:36									#14
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

It does take a little while to understand everything. I read the manual and it does a decent job of explaining most things.

As far as your autopilot question, if you left click a ship then right an area on the map, your ship goes into auto-pilot until it reaches it's destination. Why a ship on autopilot just sits there...i don't know.

Maybe it is on guard or something, although clicking a ship should activate it.

I also had a bit of a time figuring out where my newly constructed ship was. I just recently noticed that when a ship is built, it doesn't show up on the galaxy map...It is garrisoned in orbit around the planet that built it. (indicated by the shield in the lower right of the star).

You have to actually click on the star, and then on the right side where the planets are listed, there will be a "ships in orbit" section where the newly built ship should be.

Double click on the ship that you want to release from orbit and it will pop up on the main galaxy map to control as usual.

As for colony ships, maybe if you send the ship to a star with no planets, it gets disbanded or something, otherwise, when a colony ship arrives at a star, you name the system and them slick on a planet on the right in the planet list.

	29-03-2003 22:08									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: It is garrisoned in orbit around the planet that built it. (indicated by the shield in the lower right of the star). You have to actually click on the star, and then on the right side where the planets are listed, there will be a "ships in orbit" section where the newly built ship should be.

when the window pops up informing you of the creation of the ship, on the left you have the planet info and you can see your new ship in orbit. you can double click on the ship right there at that moment instead of looking for it afterwards

	29-03-2003 23:32									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Yes that (where is my new ship) got for a bit as well. I think the point that was made about many of the people having been involved all along and therefore knew the game, is true.
The way to determine if a guide or a manual does what is needed is not to give it to knowledgable player, but to give it to people that do not have a clue. Now you will see what type of help may be needed for the masses.

	30-03-2003 06:24									#17
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I am the prime example of the computer game buyer that no developer really wants buying their game, being afflicted with Obtusity***, Moronity(tm), Stupidism(tm), and now I perceive I am one of the masses as well! Wow! I have a lot of company!

Take stupidism for example. Having installed the program, I always started it with the desktop icon and never looked at the Program Menu entry where I would have found the excellent Survival Guide, which indeed helps a lot and seems to answer most of the questions I had at the beginning!

-------------------

*** Obtusity is a registered trademark of the Mitrosoft Corporation, all rights reserved.

	30-03-2003 09:16									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I think it would be wise if they had made a very comprehensive pfd or HML doc with nic pictures and dat aon at least all of the things in the game.

	30-03-2003 09:21									#19
	Got spare money?

vmx,

check this link out:http://webpages.charter.net/trevorpowdrell/

It was at the galciv site. Someone named javascout wrote it, and it is very comprehensive (if it is accurate).

	30-03-2003 13:47									#20
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I had tried to look at this yesterday, but it did not want to come down. I guess the site was busy or slow.
I expect to get back and check it out sooner or later.

There are so many events and they are not dicumented. All the tech with no real idea about what exactly they do and why I should take one over the other.
OYes most seem straight forwatd, but is +10 diplomacy better than +10 morale and under what conditions.
So many improvements to starbases, but no list of them and again how to decide which one to go for and when?

	30-03-2003 18:16									#21
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

It sure would be nice to have a civ3 type tree laid out. Say what you want about civ3, but there was never any confusion over techs, it was all laid out in your face.

As it is now, in galciv, if i want the best warships, i just research the tech that SEEMS to lean in that direction and hope for the best...not the best way to go at it.


From my experience with starbases, it doesn't seem as bad, since once a constructor gets to the base, all the upgrades are described along with any benefit (+10 morale etc...)

As for when to choose a + 10 morale upgrade over a + 10 research upgrade, I thought it was pretty straightforward in that you choose the one for the area you are concerned with. Wanna have more success trading? choose the + 10 diplomacy upgrade. Approval rating slipping? take the + 10 morale upgrade.

	30-03-2003 23:48									#22
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Ok, I got the doc from JavaScout and it looks like an exact copy of the manual that came with the game.
I thought they were working on an expanded one?

	01-04-2003 00:16									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

They are, vmxa1, but the first step was to take the existing one and transfer it to a format that they could work with. The original manual was laid out in Quark Express, and noone (even at StarDock, it seems), has access to Quark Express.

	01-04-2003 00:39									#24
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

well, i didn't even look at the manual on javascouts site. i was referring to the website in general. The way it describes everything.

He seems to have done what should have been done in the game, create hyperlink descriptions for the techs...

	01-04-2003 01:08									#25
	Increase Your PM Length

It would make the game a lot more attractive to new players (like me) if that sort of content were available inside the game itself. With Civ III you have the Civilopaedia. Ought to have a Galactopaedia or some such in Galciv.

	01-04-2003 02:24									#26
	Put an end to popups!

At least a help for things in the game. If you are looking to build a structure it is not always clear what the benefit is to add it. I could have used a right click to get details on things in the list of the planetary build queue.
Eventually one may come to know them well enough to not need that data, but not day 1.

	01-04-2003 02:28									#27
	Inflate your Upload Space

did you notice the little question mark in the window that depicts each structure/ship in the planet build queue?

It gives more info on the item, a little...