27-03-2003 01:24									#1
	Morality of large scale massacres Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Is it morraly acceptable for allied forces to massacre Iraqi troops.

I refer to actions such as the airstrikes against a convoy of up to 120 Iraqi vehicles leaving Basra which is presently being attached by airpower, artillery etc. The Iraqi's obviously have no hope of winning such a confontation.

I have concerns thus. Despite the intentions of those soldiers (well more specifically their leaders) many many of them will die the most horrendous deaths or be left with appauling injuries. At the end of the day these Iraqi's are human beings the same as us, with mothers, children etc. I imagine many of them have little choice in being there and surrender probably isnt a viable option given individually it would be put down by their own command. Irrespective of that I doubt there would be a pause in the attack for the allies to even notice.

I am haunted and would be loathe to see a repeat of the images following the ill fated retreat down that motorway from Kuwait ala Gulf War I.

Call me liberal or left but then your wrong, im just a compassionate person with feelings.

	27-03-2003 01:26									#2
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so the only way we can fight is if both of us give up all our weapons and send our troops at eachother one at a time

that would be the only way things would be fair (actually, even that would not be fair, because of differences in training and health)

Jon Miller

	27-03-2003 01:27									#3
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If they dont bomb them now, they will lose soldiers when fighting them later on.

	27-03-2003 01:27									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Barley Call me liberal or left but then your wrong, im just a compassionate person with feelings.

Aren't you the homophobe?

	27-03-2003 01:34									#5
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What do you suggest we use against defending Iraqi forces?

Bad language?

	27-03-2003 01:49									#6
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The morality of airstrikes on troops is the same as war in general. Morally, war itself sucks !! But, once engaged in one, I see no problem with attacking all military personel and targets.

Lets put it this way, if you can't hit them in ways where you have an advantage, that only leaves ways that are "fair'--( probably defined as an equal chance of death on each side). Given that the US/UK is badly outnumbered, that hardly seems sensible.

Your question simply seems to be " Is it moral to have better weapons?"
My answer is heck yes.

and I also care about all the innocents involved, uniformed or not. Right now, I see the best option to be a speedy US/UK victory to minimize loss or life all around.

	27-03-2003 01:49									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Barley I am haunted and would be loathe to see a repeat of the images following the ill fated retreat down that motorway from Kuwait ala Gulf War I.

What did you think Powell meant when he said, IIRC, we're going to cut it off and kill it when refering to the Iraqi army?

	27-03-2003 01:52									#8
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Oh and "massacre" to me involves images of unarmed men,women and children being intentionally slaughtered, or a surrendering soldier being shot in the forehead. If you decimate an armored column, I think they call that a "resounding victory"

	27-03-2003 01:56									#9
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Is it acceptable to pretend you are surrendering, then kill as many people as possible. Is it acceptable that you dress as civilians, then open fire on unsuspecting troops. Is it acceptable that you dress up in US uniforms, and then kill your own people that try to surrender to you. Is it acceptable to use civilians as human shields... and the list goes on.

	27-03-2003 01:59									#10
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Hussein and his generals should have done the honorable thing and not put their soldiers through this meatgrinder.

	27-03-2003 02:10									#11
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Hussein and his generals should have done the honorable thing and not put their soldiers through this meatgrinder.

So I assume if the USA was being invaded you would surrender?

	27-03-2003 02:12									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Garth Vader So I assume if the USA was being invaded you would surrender?

No, because we would win.

	27-03-2003 03:06									#13
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Ming, these Iraqi soldiers are ordered to do these things by their superiors, and they will face severe torture/death if they don't do it most likely.

	27-03-2003 03:43									#14
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quote: So I assume if the USA was being invaded you would surrender?

these aren't double standards, since the causes vary a lot in their ethical value.

	27-03-2003 03:47									#15
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A military convoy advancing tward you is a valid target: if these were units running fomr the front, then maybe you have an argument, but not the other way around. If the Iraqis want to act stupidly and act in a way that rbings the coolition's strengths towards them, then so be it.

	27-03-2003 03:57									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Ming Is it acceptable to pretend you are surrendering, then kill as many people as possible. Is it acceptable that you dress as civilians, then open fire on unsuspecting troops. Is it acceptable that you dress up in US uniforms, and then kill your own people that try to surrender to you. Is it acceptable to use civilians as human shields... and the list goes on.

Indeed is it acceptable to go to war?

	27-03-2003 03:58									#17
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I blieve the phrase is: All's fair in love and war.

	27-03-2003 05:18									#18
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I realise we have to take our chances and maximise our advantages, this afterall saves allied lives. I do feel more could be done in some situations to assess the threat and maybe give an option of surrender though I can see this is not really feasible. secondly I do agree with the posters referring to Iraqi's in either civilian clothes or pretenting to surrender then attacking.

Whilst I am staunchly behind the allies in the war effort I just wish it hadnt come to this. I think we will live to regret the lasting repercussions and regrettably it wont be long before 9/11 is repeated.

I dont like the way all Iraqi soldiers (in or out of uniform) are Iraqi soldiers loyal Saddam even, there is the concept of people defending their homeland, towns etc. Im sure if a foreign aggressor attacked UK many of our citizens would resort to whatever means they had at their disposal to strike back in some way.

This is not worth the 000's of deaths and I deplore the gun-ho attitude displayed in many threads. I dont think some of you really appreciate what is going on out there. But I guess your just sitting in front of your tv's with a can of beer cheering along like your watching a football match or something.

	27-03-2003 05:23									#19
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quote: I blieve the phrase is: All's fair in love and war.

This reminded me of a funny reply-quote I got from Apolyton a few days ago: "War is like love, it always finds a way". Go figure.