28-03-2003 17:59									#1
	American border enforcement nonsense Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

http://nb.cbc.ca/template/servlet/V...derfarm20030327

Excerpt:

quote: PERTH-ANDOVER – Marion and Nickolaj Pedersen live in New Brunswick, but they can't get to the rest of Canada, or even pick up their newspaper, without illegally crossing an international border. Now that the American government has adopted an "orange alert" security status – just crossing the road has become a hassle for the Pedersens. They've lived on their Perth-Andover area potato farm 53 years. The property skims the international border with their driveway in Canada, and the road, centimetres away, in the United States. (...) "It was out here when they stopped me," Marion says. " And he said `I'm going to take you in.' 'In where?' I said. And boy he meant it. He wasn't fooling. And I said, `Well what's wrong?' He said `You jumped the border.' And I said `Well, maybe yes, maybe no, but if I have, I've done it for 53 years.'" Marion escaped prosecution, and eventually got special dispensation for herself and her husband Nickolaj to cross the street without getting into trouble with the law. But there's no such permission for anyone else who might come to the farm, not even her eight children who like to visit, or delivery or service people. "He said `Mrs. Pedersen, you're alright, but you're not allowed to have anybody else here. No family.' I said `What about family?' `No. No friends.' `I said what happens tonight if say the water stops? And I have to call a plumber?' `Nope, not unless them come around by Andover and report.' I said, `Well, how can they get back in here? This is Canada.' Well that was going to be the way.'"

What sort of madness is this? Has plain old common sense become a lost commodity at American Customs? The New Brunswick/Maine border is, to hazard a guess, 90% wilderness. If anyone wanted to cross over without being seen, they'd just go find a stretch of woods and walk through it (well, more likely ATV through it ). Cracking the whip on long-time residents of the area just makes the US border agents out to be anal-retentive jackasses for harassing innocent people.

How does American Customs justify this sort of nonsense?

	28-03-2003 18:03									#2
	Tired of ads?

Security.

	28-03-2003 18:20									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Sadly this kind of thing happens when there is an injection of patriotism*. All the jobsworth types crawl out of the woodwork and make as if they are important and single-handedly winning the war against terror.

* I don't mean people who are genuinely proud of their country, I mean the anally retentive types who jump up and down about being a citizen to compensate for their inadequacies.

	28-03-2003 18:44									#4
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Well, they're right to be concerned about Canadian menace! I mean, look at how much of the Canadian population is concentrated at the U. S. border - they're certainly planning to invade the U.S. with their hockey sticks or whatever!

	28-03-2003 18:55									#5
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

It's a long time feud between the Yankees and the Canucks. Now the Yanks will show the Canucks who is the boss on the block.

	28-03-2003 19:01									#6
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Canadians haven't been a help to-date in keeping the border secure.
Your joking illustrates the point perfectly.
A shame Canada has nothing worth blowing down.

	28-03-2003 19:06									#7
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I am sure there are lots of Canadian Muslim Fudamentalists waiting eagerly to blow up things in the US. That's why you need to secure that border.

	28-03-2003 19:20									#8
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I see.
You're still onboard the "all terrorists are Muslim" boat?
That boat sunk.

	28-03-2003 19:36									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Canadians haven't been a help to-date in keeping the border secure. Your joking illustrates the point perfectly. A shame Canada has nothing worth blowing down.

We're cooperating fully with the US on border issues; if they make a request in that regard we've agreed. We even allow US troops on our soil if accompanied by our own people. Learn a few facts before you shoot your mouth off.

	28-03-2003 19:49									#10
	Support Apolyton

You mean like the thread-starter implying it's all U.S. responsibilty to guard border?

Keep talking.

	28-03-2003 19:57									#11
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand You mean like the thread-starter implying it's all U.S. responsibilty to guard border? Keep talking.

You guard yours, we'll guard ours.

Maybe you can follow the lead of yer master Israel and
put up a wall and live in Fort Apache with a besieged
mindset.

	28-03-2003 20:01									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

It's a single border.
Leave it to a Canuk.

	28-03-2003 20:03									#13
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand You mean like the thread-starter implying it's all U.S. responsibilty to guard border? Keep talking.

His point is that some of the border guards are devoid of common sense and harrassing people that are clearly no threat. It seems you have a vivid imagination if you think otherwise. We've agreed to everything that the US has asked of us in regards to border security, so I don't see what else you expect us to do. It's your security problem, not ours.

	28-03-2003 20:21									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand I see. You're still onboard the "all terrorists are Muslim" boat? That boat sunk.

Do you still beat your wife Slowwhand?

	28-03-2003 20:29									#15
	Got spare money?

Its sort of a side issue, but THE most obnoxious border guards/customs agents I've ever met are those at canadian airports. On the other hand, the only place I saw someone running X-ray security properly (aside from the London airports) was when leaving Ottawa on my last trip up there.

	28-03-2003 20:30									#16
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: His point is that some of the border guards are devoid of common sense and harrassing people that are clearly no threat. I

I figure what goes around comes around because it's always been harder getting into Canada than coming back. If I had a nickel for everytime I was harassed by Canadian customs going over. .....

Just another reason to open the border once and for all..

	28-03-2003 20:37									#17
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Do you still beat your wife Slowwhand?

That was surely a reach.


And no way, to opening the border to French-wannabes.

	28-03-2003 20:41									#18
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand That was surely a reach.

Ah, you finally found your own type of trolls boring, eh. That's a good start.

	28-03-2003 20:42									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by DetroitDave Just another reason to open the border once and for all..

I see no reason why we can't at least have only one customs post instead of two. It would save both our countries money by working together, and it would no doubt be much more efficient. Not to mention less time consuming for people crossing.

	28-03-2003 20:44									#20
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Well thisd thread degenerated quickly . . .

Original story-- Obviously some border guard was a bit too overzealous in enforcing the rules. There has to be a bit of common sense applied wrt the many people that sit astride the border. I don't know if they still exist but there were cases where a single house straddled the border so that the inhabitants might sleep in their bedroom in Canada and eat breakfast in their kitchen in the US. To expect them to walk to a border crossing post before doing so would be equally ludicrous as the example cited above.

	28-03-2003 20:51									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Flubber I don't know if they still exist but there were cases where a single house straddled the border so that the inhabitants might sleep in their bedroom in Canada and eat breakfast in their kitchen in the US. To expect them to walk to a border crossing post before doing so would be equally ludicrous as the example cited above.

I recall seeing a story about that on the CBC once. It was along the New Brunswick/Maine border wasn't it? There was another one I remember as well. A restaurant had the border going right down the middle of it's dining room; they even had the line painted on the floor.

	28-03-2003 20:53									#22
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Ever watchful, UR on the job.

	28-03-2003 20:56									#23
	Increase Your PM Length

It's not so much being "too zealous in enforcing," as it is "too inflexible in micromanaging." A lot of things that the customs/INS people happily ignored in the name of common sense, they can now be disciplined and even terminated for failing to do.

There's a lot of top-down pressure, originating with Congress, and it leads to absurd crap like this, while other border security risks are not addressed.

The simple answer is to have a buffer zone, and people passing out of that buffer zone, would be subject to normal inspection.

	28-03-2003 21:43									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

One of the problems with how security has 'improved' in this country is simple things that originally weren't really security concerns are 'improved'. Its a lot easier to slap some border officers on patrol and use that as example of America's increased security than to come up with a reasonable and quick way to search freight every time they come into the country.

	29-03-2003 01:23									#25
	Inflate your Upload Space

This story is no longer remarkable. A certain Olympic gold medal snowboarder is now forbidden from entering the US. He has zero convictions and zero charges, but has admitted to smoking pot. I seem to recall a former US President admitting the same thing.

Another individual living in a town right on the border, with no official border crossing was in the habit of going a stone's throw across the border to the only gas station in the whole region. He was arrested and spent about a month in jail. His crime was getting gas with his pickup that had a hunting rifle in it. Normally a voice of reason in the Bush administration, Colin Powell defended the US action.

In a narrow sence MtG may be correct. In a broader sense, dealing with the concerns of other countries, even the US's largest trading partner, is not a priority for the leaders at the top directing these border guards.

	29-03-2003 01:31									#26
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Canadians haven't been a help to-date in keeping the border secure. Your joking illustrates the point perfectly. A shame Canada has nothing worth blowing down.

You have anything to back this up or are you just talking out of your ass like usual?

Let me guess: "war in Iraq" = "border security"

	29-03-2003 01:35									#27
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

^ Actually, RedFred, it later came to light that the individual in question had been warned on at least one previous occasion not to cross the border with a firearm, at least that's how I heard it. In that case, my sympathy for the bugger drops off considerably.

Is this "culture of fear" type border enforcement ever going to subside in the USA?

	29-03-2003 01:38									#28
	Tired of ads?

Hah! Preemptive snubbing...

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/03/2...sh_visit030328B

	29-03-2003 01:39									#29
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Canadians haven't been a help to-date in keeping the border secure.

To answer a troll with a troll...

Number of 9/11 hijackers who entered the USA via Canada: 0
Number of 9/11 hijackers who entered the USA directly: the whole lot of 'em
USA border agents believing they can act like pompous jackasses at the Canadian border: priceless.

(Actually, I've sanitized the third line from where I originally read it )

	29-03-2003 01:41									#30
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Probably not for a long, long time.

It's interesting, though, because at the San Ysidro crossing between Tijuana and San Diego, it's gotten to be a sort of routine schizophrenic mix of slackness and occasional ridiculous delays for no apparent reason.