29-03-2003 07:25									#1
	Did GalCiv need Moo3? Support Apolyton

I mean, if Moo3 had not been the fiasco it became, would anyone buy GalCiv? And if there was no Moo3 at all, woudl GalCiv even get noticed?

	29-03-2003 08:20									#2
	Suffering from ads?

MOO3 crashing right a brick certainly helped, there is no doubt about that. I would say that GalCiv could stand on its own merit though. Probably wouldn't have got as much sales, all depending I guess on how bad/good MOO3 was. Again though, I'd say it could have stood on its own had MOO3 not failed so completely.

	29-03-2003 08:43									#3
	Put an end to popups!

Had there been no MOO3 at all, GalCiv still would have been noticed, since fans of 4x games have been aching for something fresh. And all those people who aren't buying GalCiv now because they just plunked down $50 for the lemon MOO3 and are either wary of being burned again or don't have the $$ to get another game so soon might be buying it, so maybe the sales would be even better.

Of course, the question is, how well is GalCiv selling?

	29-03-2003 16:00									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Well Boris, no sales figures for you, but they *DID* State that the dounload area banged their site up to one of the top 1000 in the world!

That means that they have served up Terrabyte of data to people buying the game online and downloading it.

I have never known a none buisness/Government site make it to the top .5% (or whatever % a top 1000 site is )of all sites

Last edited by Nirvana_CN on 30-03-2003 at 01:32

	30-03-2003 01:21									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Heck... can't wait to get GameSpot's selling figures

	30-03-2003 01:48									#6
	Remove this text

I had heard of GalCiv but it was not on my "radar" as a game I would want.

That all changed when MOO3 came out and was such a tremendous disappointment.

I bought the game because of MOO3. I am certain that I represent a significant market segment.

The design of GalCiv makes no bones about it's derivative nature. I find it refreshing.

M

	30-03-2003 03:05									#7
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I had decided to buy them both before either came out. MOO3 being as bad as it was just made me buy GalCiv immediately instead of waiting a month or two.

As for GalCiv needing MOO3, I doubt it. I think GalCiv just would have taken off slower and built a cult following that eventually would have expanded into the mainstream if MOO3 was better.

	30-03-2003 04:20									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Harry Seldon As for GalCiv needing MOO3, I doubt it. I think GalCiv just would have taken off slower and built a cult following that eventually would have expanded into the mainstream if MOO3 was better.

Join the cult of GalCiv !

I would have bought both - but then again I'm a TBS nut. I've got Space Empires 3 (which GalCiv reminds me a lot of) and Space Empires 4 (inferior to 3 AI-wise IMHO). I even bought CTP2 ($50 I'll never see again).

	31-03-2003 17:24									#9
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Think of GalCiv as your reward for suffering through CTP2

-Jam

	31-03-2003 18:51									#10
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I for one wouldn't have bought or even noticed GalCiv if not for the MoO3 fiasco.

	31-03-2003 20:03									#11
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I think people eventually would have gotten around to GalCiv (it's very different from MOO3, after all!), but by then the game would have fallen far in price and been something of a cult classic.

This way, GalCiv hit mainstream and many, many full-priced copies have been bought. Score a huge one for the little guys who keep their sights on gameplay and value!!!

	31-03-2003 20:18									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by yin26 Score a huge one for the little guys who keep their sights on gameplay and value!!!

Hear, hear!

	31-03-2003 23:16									#13
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb I for one wouldn't have bought or even noticed GalCiv if not for the MoO3 fiasco.

Same with me. Yesterday was my birthday and I resolved myself to buy a game, and it was either going to be MOO3 or GalCiv. From the things I've heard, I decided it would be GalCiv.

So, at least for me, I wouldn't own GalCiv if it weren't for what happened with MOO.

	01-04-2003 00:50									#14
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I found out about GalCiv because of my interest in MoO3, but I had preordered GalCiv before MoO3 turned out to be a dissapointment to many (I like it, but stopped playing it as soon as I got GalCiv, awaiting a patch).

Talk about night and day. I've had the MoO3 AI hit me hard, but I've never felt like I was in a tornado like I did yesterday when I found myself at war for the first time in GalCiv (it's easier to stay out of declared war in GalCiv than in MoO3, but much more likely you'll be attacked if one is declared). I was constantly pulling ships of the line out of contested sectors to return for repair (I had bigger but fewer ships, so I couldn't waste them), replacing destroyed starbases, upgrading starbases for their own defense and to aid the ships that were defending that sector, etc. It was a rush, and this on a skill level where the AI is handicapped!

	01-04-2003 03:46									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by yin26 Score a huge one for the little guys who keep their sights on gameplay and value!!!

Amen to that. This is arguably one of the greatest things to happen to gaming, ever. Not GalCiv as a game (although I'm sure it rocks), but the fact that a guy and his small company can create a fantastic, salable game without having to make the various cuts and compromises that so often hamstring games from uber-companies (Civ3 and MOO3, though I love both games). I sincerely hope that Brad & Stardock prosper and continue to produce outstanding and successful products, and I hope that other small companies follow suit.

	01-04-2003 04:21									#16
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by yin26 GalCiv (it's very different from MOO3, after all!)

But GalCiv is very similiar to MOO1 and MOO2.

	01-04-2003 06:03									#17
	Got spare money?

quote: Think of GalCiv as your reward for suffering through CTP2 -Jam

Hmm, CTP2 is exquisitely modifiable. The money I spent on it was the best investment I ever made in a computer game: it got me interested in, and gave me the opportunity to learn a bit about, event driven programming. Still, I know this isn't everybody's cup of tea.

Anyway, nice to see a game released that the players like (for a change).

	01-04-2003 09:44									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Score a huge one for the little guys who keep their sights on gameplay and value!!!

Definetly! I plan to get GalCiv soon (after finals). But I've been playing Out of the Park Baseball 5, which is a text based baseball sim made by a little guy who is always looking to the fans for new ideas!

That is where the best values come from, the little guys! .

	01-04-2003 18:30									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Imran:

Hey, nice to see ya! You're right, of course. For those who don't need 75 FPS of visuals, these little guys really are making a difference. And with being able to download these game directly, my hope is we'll one day see the death of the evil, evil publishers!

(O.K., won't happen any time soon, but I just love thinking that it might.)

quote: But GalCiv is very similiar to MOO1 and MOO2.

True. GalCiv made incremental but significant changes to a sound design. There are many, of course, who miss the tactical combat of the early MOOs, but what you get in AI and other things more than makes up for it, IMO.

	01-04-2003 20:30									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I was going to buy GalCiv either way. I saw something about it a long time ago and it actually led me to MOO3. I hadnt played a space empire builder other than IG2.

I purchased MOO3 because it appeared to be so feature rich. And it is. But its difficult to like. Im still trying. However, I will probably be picking up GalCiv today, so MOO3s days are numbered.

As for CTP2....it brought me to the turn-based genre...and modded, its a fun game. Maybe not as polished as Civ3, but well worth my money. It has multiplayer, and very cool future techs/units. I play it a couple times a month.

	01-04-2003 23:45									#21
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Enjoy MOO3 while it lasts. I picked up GalCiv on release. I genuinely enjoyed MOO3. Playing GalCiv made me realize just how unfun MOO3 really was. There's no urgency when you're playing MOO. Techs come and go but don't really do much. MM is cut but it leaves you detached from the game in some ways.

I'm always in a panic when I play GalCiv. I NEED that new tech to stay competitive. If I need help fighting an enemy I can ask another AI to help, and they will for the right price, but I don't know if I'm being set up or if I'm making a new friend. Your friends hold with you. The AI acts in a predictably unpredictable way just like a human (alien?). I freakin' love it even when I'm getting smashed on sub-normal level. In a few months we'll probably see a thread "Who remembers MOO3?" and we'll all get a good laugh in right before getting back to our pending cultural victory on Gigantic/Genius.

	02-04-2003 00:10									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Nicely put. The sense of urgency in a TBS is truly a hard monster to trap, but they did it!

	02-04-2003 10:28									#23
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Count me in the camp of those who planned on buying both games. I still plan on buying GalCiv, but am enjoying playing MOO3. I've never played MOO1/2, so I don't know what I'm missing. And since I'm totally new to the space genre, most of my enjoyment comes from just trying to figure things out.

A lot of mods are coming out for MOO3, addressing some of the minor (and not so minor) complaints, like the lack of micromanaging. So, even though the game in itself might leave a lot to be desired, as with CTP2, the players are making it better. My only major complaint is I'm too distanced from research. I make discoveries, but since I never chose to make them, I don't know what use they are to me, and since I don't know this, I really don't care about them.

	02-04-2003 11:08									#24
	Tired of ads?

quote: For those who don't need 75 FPS of visuals, these little guys really are making a difference.

But you have to admit those 75 FPS can look nice . Especially when the game is good .

Nice to see ya too.

--

I'm hearing a LOT about the urgency of the game. I wonder... do any of you feel it is overwhelming? I guess I can't really play it as I played Civ2 or SMAC (gentle builder type who went to war sparingly), but I want to know if it'll be too much for me .

	05-04-2003 13:40									#25
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I was going to buy MoO3 only, because I didn't feel I could trust Gal civ... never heard of it.....

But now that I DESPISE MoO3 and the $50 it stole from me without giving me a good Empire building game, and from reading alot of reviews that say about Galciv:

It's fun
It has people worried about their empires

and have yet to read a "it sucks, I wasted my money!"

I am leaning towards giving this small time company a chance with my money.

	06-04-2003 06:10									#26
	Re: Did GalCiv need Moo3? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Haon I mean, if Moo3 had not been the fiasco it became, would anyone buy GalCiv? And if there was no Moo3 at all, woudl GalCiv even get noticed?

Quoting our Sec. of State Colin Powell from a recent press briefing at NATO headquarters in Belgium, "I don't accept your premise". MOO3 is as freaking far from fiasco as a game could get.

I bought Galciv because of the reviews I read here.

Quixote

	06-04-2003 14:54									#27
	Remove this text

Well I don't know about other european countries, but in Germany, there was absolutely no mention of GalCiv anywhere. The development of MoO3 was common knowledge. MoO3 is available through amazon.de, GalCiv is not. So if I hadn't read about GalCiv in MoO3 forums or gotten that GalCiv ad in the MoO3 box, I would not know about it...

So yes, at least in Germany GalCiv certainly benefitted largely from the MoO3 fiasco. (Of course I have no idea how many germans actualy bought GalCov so I don't know whether that is significant...)

Lata
Krait

	06-04-2003 16:13									#28
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui [q] I'm hearing a LOT about the urgency of the game. I wonder... do any of you feel it is overwhelming? I guess I can't really play it as I played Civ2 or SMAC (gentle builder type who went to war sparingly), but I want to know if it'll be too much for me .

I am the builder type and love SMAC. So, don't fear! You can choose your way to play, and customize the game at the start to match your preferences (ex: all aliens are good = less wars but influence/economic competition)

I just won a game where I played defensively most of the time. I was involved in a war with the Superpower but a 'Galactic Cease-fire' got imposed by the United Planets and I could then play my scheme in the shadows. A hell of a game!!

	07-04-2003 19:55									#29
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

vishniac, I'm a builder, and I was on my third game before I got into a serious war. In fact, in my last game, I had one war declared on me, but I never had the need to send any ships into combat, as shortly after the Drengin declared war on me, everyone jumped to my aid (I was trade partners with everyone so they wanted to preserve that income) and the Drengin got taken out without me having to lift a finger. GalCiv will be much more about the politics and relations than about combat unless you're a warmonger.