31-03-2003 01:32									#1
	Turn 85, 900 BC Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

To be edited by the leaders of the Scholia.

Status:
- Research halted at 0%, technically we research Feudalism.
- Luxuries at 10%
- 298 gold cash (if Lego accepts the 80 gold gift, as it should), +61 gold.

Urgent questions:
- What do we research next, or do we suspend research until we talk with Lego and coordinate our plans?
- Do we want to build warriors for possible upgrade to swordsmen or focus on units we can upgrade to knights or cavalry? <-- To be decided this turn!
- Do we want to build our iron city right beside the mountains or one tile away?

Military:

Economy:
- Tornado produces warrior, may be switched back if we decide to produce only fast units
- Arashi (6 food in the box?) uses 2 FP. (+6 food, growth in 3)
- Tempest (8 food in the box?) uses 2 FP + Irrigated Plains. (+6 food, growth in 2)
- Worker 1 of Sandstorm moves 366 onto Iron to Road, 5 turns. Should be 4 turns left on the Iron mine, 3 when we start the Road. The Mine will be done with 2 turns left on the road, so the Miner bumps that to 1 turn, and both Workers can be added to Hurricane the next turn.
- Worker 8 of Cyclone builds Road. Deviation from standing orders.
- Worker 3 of Typhoon moves 887 onto Forest to Road.

Diplomacy:
- Negotiations with Vox concerning Monotheism

Thread library:
- Standing orders for workers

Last edited by Aeson on 31-03-2003 at 14:23

	31-03-2003 04:11									#2
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research next: see lego chat. It was agreed that we would get to knights asap, but things depend on what Vox will get as free tech. If MT, we should go for feudalism, chivalry after that, while lego goes for either theology, or invention. I think they'll prefer theo, as they want happiness wonders, but maybe convincing to get invention first will be possible.

Anyway, the first few turns of lego will be spend on saving cash, so we've got a bit time to discuss options (not too much!)

DeepO

	31-03-2003 04:12									#3
	Put an end to popups!

oh, and MT from Vox: the least we need, is to get it asap, as it is the only reason why we have given 3 techs to them the moment we got them.

DeepO

	31-03-2003 04:24									#4
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Just to point out something out: we've got another celebration we need to perform (although this one is rather silly): we just crossed the 1 million citizens... the way this is going, we should rename our civ to China

DeepO

	31-03-2003 07:16									#5
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We don't really need to units in EoTS anymore, maybe send them to the front or a barracks city?
OR just let them some scouting ( massive uprisings next turn ! )

	31-03-2003 14:37									#6
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I'd like to see our Spear in EotS move up to Arashi. For right now, having our WC's based in EotS would be best, though using them for lookouts to free up Warriors might be a good idea. The WC in Bolderberg moves out to the W Desert (8847) to free up the Warrior to move onto the Road (3), and give the best possible warning of any potential crossing at that point. By moving it 88 and then 22 every other turn, we see everything along the W Desert coast that we can see.

All the Warriors available (99 from Arashi, EotS, Cyclone) should head for a Barracks city, Hurricane if possible. If nothing else, they can block any potential landings around Hurricane until we would want to upgrade them. That would give us 5 Warriors in or around Hurricane, and in 5 turns our defense will be solid.

The Spear near Hurricane should move onto the road network, preferably in Sandstorm. We have enough warning to get it back on the Mountains if necessary, and it will keep our defense more fluid.

	31-03-2003 14:56									#7
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As for city placement, I think we need to keep our next city away from the Mountains. We know Vox has 3-4 Immortals, and at least 1 Galley. We would have no chance of defending that city if it's up against the Mountains. Our WC's could respond in time, but they couldn't attack. I'm sure we can work out the Iron border culturally either through negotiations with Vox, or by force if necessary.

Also we need to decide in the next few turns if we want to build 1 or 2 W Desert cities. 1 built on the incense with access to the Whale makes our GA more productive as the pop is better used elsewhere, but we need a Temple in Bolderberg this build for it to work right. The border expansion opens up Tempest's last hill, along with Bolderberg's. For the borders to expand in time, we can't wait or we would have to cash rush.

1 Desert city gives less long term potential in the area, but will cut corruption rates in our 3 northernmost cities, all of which are better sites shorterm and longterm.

	31-03-2003 15:06									#8
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How exactly do you convince a team in this game to demolish a temple?

I think it more likely that we could 'take care of the problem' militarily, than that we would ever get Vox to demolish cultural buildings.

They might take the city, but do you think they would keep it?

If a war starts on our terms, is that city ever going to be threatened?

If a war starts on their terms, do you think we will be able to spare the forces to defend it?

I would say we should build the city where it suits us best. The military situation vis-a-vis Vox should not have much to do with it.

Where is the best place for a city for us in the long run?

	31-03-2003 15:44									#9
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quote: How exactly do you convince a team in this game to demolish a temple?

All we have to do is inform Vox that we are planning on building back away from the Mountain, and get them to agree that the Iron is ours. Our first build is a Temple there to get to the Whale anyways.

quote: I would say we should build the city where it suits us best. The military situation vis-a-vis Vox should not have much to do with it.

I agree, but I am taking into account the economic differences as well. The military difference may not be much, but at least there is a difference.

Long term potential, it depends on if we have 1 or 2 Desert city sites. There isn't much difference either way, and the difference only shows up post Harbor/Aquaduct if we build 2 W Desert cities and don't take Dissidentville. If we ever take Dissidentville, we gain a post Harbor/Aquaduct Sea tile by building away from the Mountains. I think corruption ends up being 1% lower in a Republic at the site away from the Mountains, probably never would show up.

Economically it's a wash.

	31-03-2003 21:26									#10
	Increase Your PM Length

As to the desert cities: kind of intuitively, I would go for 2 cities. I agree it's only a hunch, but as a city is simply won there, those 12 citizens it could grow to will mean a nice commerce in that city. Sure, the other cities will suffer more corruption out of this, and as we can't expect the desert ones to be very productive, it would only be a small difference, but then again, with 2 cities we don't need a temple that soon in Tempest.

BTW, I always like a few decent commerce cities, and this could be 2 of those without needing to sacrifice much in the rest of our empire. They could simply build all commerce things (ibraries, courthouses, markets), without us needing to worry about troop production as we have other cities for that.

I agree though, it's kind of intuitively... maybe corruption will mean we won't win anything by building 2 cities.

DeepO

	31-03-2003 21:50									#11
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Opening the turn...

The iron mining is finished in 3, not 4 turns. I move the worker on the mountain nevertheless, as it makes sense to road it ASAP.

The worker 87 from Arashi finished roading. Valid options are mining, going onto the iron to road it, or to return to the "mainland".

The worker 6 of Typhoon finished roading the forest. I suppose he's to be sent to the remaining fur forest, to road it (or chop?)

EDIT: Tempest <-- Typhoon, thanks for catching this, DeepO. I got confused with these T-cities.

Last edited by Sir Ralph on 31-03-2003 at 22:54

	31-03-2003 21:54									#12
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

EotS could work 4 FPs without harming another city, and thus make 10 surplus and grow next turn again. But I don't know if we lose the granary food this way. Has anyone experience with that?

	31-03-2003 21:58									#13
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Team scores:

169 (+3) Gathering Storm
177 (+3) Demogyptica
147 (+3) Glory of War
180 (+2) Role Play
124 (+2) Vox Controli
182 (+4) Legoland

	31-03-2003 22:21									#14
	Increase Your PM Length

worker 87 from Arashi looks best when he would go 3, and mine the SG. But don't take my word for it if you can find other confirmation

worker onto iron: yes, I would move him anyhow. Otherwise there would be a delay in adding the last one to Hurricane...

worker 6 of Typhoon (not Tempest): I don't know. It could be that it was expected of him to chop the forest he is currently standing on, although I doubt it. If that would get ruled out, the fur forest seems a logical move.

DeepO

	31-03-2003 22:22									#15
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Oh, EotS getting to size 7: no, don't do that, it would destroy the granary we build up. Maybe later, if we need to get a settler from there

DeepO

	31-03-2003 22:28									#16
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Damn, no tech from Vox?

I PM'ed Beta yesterday, maybe it got too late...

Well, he said "thank you" and that they'll send it right away.

	31-03-2003 22:51									#17
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Oops, sorry, I forgot to mention. Here's it in bold, so that everyone catches it: Vox gifted us Monotheism. So we're going to research Feudalism.

	31-03-2003 23:01									#18
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So that's also been taken care of. Should we start negotiations with other teams on ways to sell MT?

BTW: eta on Feudalism? (roughly, of course). And would a tech analysis be possible, so we see how many teams have gotten techs, like rep, and constr?

DeepO

	31-03-2003 23:11									#19
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Feudalism in 13 turns at 60%, that leaves us with +2 or so. And concerning Republic and Construction: How can we analyze the cost of techs we already have? I can say for sure, nobody has Feudalism and Engineering yet.

I'm holding the turn. We need to discuss the worker issue (2 workers), and if we want to switch Tornado from vet warrior back to war chariot. Also, it would be good to discuss the location of our 2nd iron city.

	31-03-2003 23:28									#20
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Please offer Mono to ND- there's nothing wrong in trying, and it worked last time.

I'll contact HotE and GF about Mono, although i'm sure the Bobians got it from Vox somehow, and maybe sold it to Lego as well.

If those Legos got Mono from Bob, it means they're really havn't picked up on what DeepO urged them to.

	31-03-2003 23:34									#21
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: The worker 87 from Arashi finished roading. Valid options are mining, going onto the iron to road it, or to return to the "mainland".

Mine either of the bonus grassland up there.

quote: The worker 6 of Typhoon finished roading the forest. I suppose he's to be sent to the remaining fur forest, to road it (or chop?)

Yes, just to road it.

	01-04-2003 00:58									#22
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Playing the turn now.

I set research to 60% and start Feudalism. Tornado remains building a warrior, ready next turn. A few vet swordsmen/medinfs can't hurt, we probably get tu knights in 25 turns or so, many can happen during this time. I send the spearman out of EotS after the settler, and the warrior Crush out of EotS north, to replace the lookout spearman, who also can go then towards the border. But we should be careful with that, we soon will be able to upgrade the spearmen, and need them in a barracks city for this.

Lego already has Monotheism, can't offer.

Finishing the turn now. 30 minutes for complaints.

	01-04-2003 01:49									#23
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Turn and screenshots sent.

	01-04-2003 13:10									#24
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Lego already has Monotheism, can't offer.

So they did get it from Vox?
-

Voxes little excurion on the mainland has cast us very dearly

	01-04-2003 14:04									#25
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Had to be from Vox. I wonder what they got for it? If it's our 80 gold, we should ask for it from Vox...

	01-04-2003 17:44									#26
	Tired of ads?

quote: Voxes little excurion on the mainland has cast us very dearly

Hmm... add that to the casus belli list

	01-04-2003 21:23									#27
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I was thinking on what they could have asked as a 'good deal'. I wouldn't be surprised if they said to Vox something similar as to us: we give Curr+Constr, GS gives Rep, and Vox gives MT. Which wuold mean some of our 80 gold would be given to Vox, perhaps even 40 gold or so (splitting the difference).

Also, I can imagine Lego didn't mind to sponsor Vox a little, not only will it mean more instability to Bob (they hope, it could be exactly the opposite), but also it would mean they hamper us a little. And in their PoV, maybe GS will be the team to beat in the end, if they can be relatively sure we won't attack them, and do everything in our power to disrupt Bob. We can't mind that, we do the same... I would certainly want closer relations to Lego, but only if it would advantage us more then it would advantage them.

The problem is, there is no way of finding it out: we can't simply ask Lego, and neither Vox. I'll try to ask "beside my nose" () how they got it, but we can't ask them directly, as it might offend them. We do not want to appear as patronizing Lego, even if this is exactly what we want to achieve.

DeepO