31-03-2003 14:43									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Asher You wouldn't want me to be more thoughtful when I'm in a bad mood and somebody is pissing me off. It's for the better of everyone...

No. If your thoughtful when your angry, its very good for everyone.

quote: Look: You were acting like a tw4t, I treated you like one, and you got angry. Deal with it.

You are proving my point Asher. You cannot accept friendly advice because you always think that the sender is always trying to say "Har har, I'm smarter than U! har har har".

If you can't take advice, then how will you ever grow?

quote: Then to further dig yourself a hole, you drag it out in public.

I'm not the one not accepting PMs, now am I?

	31-03-2003 14:44									#32
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quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoet Asher: Have you actually seen the 15 minutes of film you're talking about? No? Didn't think so.... I haven't seen it either, and I guess that your version of events is probably closer to the truth than Daz's, but nevertheless it seems odd that you would attack his interpretation of the footage without even having seen it yourself. Like I said, I'm inclined to believe Daz is just trolling, but I'm certainly not going to argue about it if I haven't had the chance to forge my own opinion of the footage in question. To do so seems silly.

I'm arguing with him based on his description of what he claims shows that the footage was faked. There's nothing wrong with that.

	31-03-2003 14:45									#33
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We all know how independant these "embedded" journalists are...

Luckily there are serveral journalists left who don't want to be "embedded" into a military unit...

Unfonrtunately the US says they won't protect them at all, like that Journalist who got killed just recently by the Americans.. Well we all know how top quality CNN is

	31-03-2003 14:45									#34
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Asher: I give up. You win. Hooray.

You can go back watching CNN now...

	31-03-2003 14:45									#35
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NYE:

"Why do you think the same thing could not happen now?"

It could, but it's quite unlikely. The media are pampering the politicians instead of controlling them, even the Washington Post and the NY Times. If you compare it with what the british or german press have to say about politicians, it's incredibly lame.

"I don't see anyone's journalists, grouped on nationality, to have any higher credibility than the Yanks, with very few exceptions. Most have far less."

Pretty fat call. Well, how much do you know about german or french journalism, hmm?

	31-03-2003 14:46									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Tassadar5000 No. If your thoughtful when your angry, its very good for everyone.

No, I just think of more creative places for you to go to when I'm thoughtful and angry...

quote: You are proving my point Asher. You cannot accept friendly advice because you always think that the sender is always trying to say "Har har, I'm smarter than U! har har har". If you can't take advice, then how will you ever grow?

I can take advice, just not from certain people. You happen to be one of those people...

quote: I'm not the one not accepting PMs, now am I?

That's because I, once again, overestimated your intelligence. I'd assumed you'd be smart enough/mature enough to let it die. C'est la vie.

	31-03-2003 14:49									#37
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quote: That's because I, once again, overestimated your intelligence. I'd assumed you'd be smart enough/mature enough to let it die. C'est la vie.

You are hardly one to be talking about maturity when some people are on your "list" of "I can accept advice from" and "I can't for whatever reason."



You could easily open the PM box and we could duke it out in private....If thats what you actually want, of course

	31-03-2003 14:52									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Tassadar5000 You are hardly one to be talking about maturity when some people are on your "list" of "I can accept advice from" and "I can't for whatever reason."

There's nothing wrong with not taking advice from people you have zero respect for.

I wouldn't take advice from Albert Speer, nor Giancarlo either.

That's not immature, it's practical.

quote: You could easily open the PM box and we could duke it out in private....If thats what you actually want, of course

I don't want to duke it out, I wanted it to die, which is why I locked the damn box to begin with. But you wouldn't have that, would you.

	31-03-2003 14:54									#39
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HershOstropoler:

But there are literally millions of them. Do you think that every single person in American media is out to cover for Bush and co? I refer you to Michael Moore's recent outburst. He is fairly close to the mind set of many in American media. Do you think Mr. Moore is pampering Mr. Bush?

Haha. I left myself an out. 'Very few exceptions'. Most of those would be found in Western Europe. But what do French people do about knowing that their President is a lying, theiving, hack? At least the Yanks require that theirs have never been caught before.

	31-03-2003 14:56									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Asher There's nothing wrong with not taking advice from people you have zero respect for. I wouldn't take advice from Albert Speer, nor Giancarlo either. That's not immature, it's practical.

You deny yourself knowledge because it comes from a source you dont respect? Maybe I could route it through a source you respect?

quote: I don't want to duke it out, I wanted it to die, which is why I locked the damn box to begin with. But you wouldn't have that, would you.

All one simply has to do is stop responding to the poster in order to kill a subject.....It becomes much easier if there are less people involved

	31-03-2003 14:58									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Tassadar5000 You deny yourself knowledge because it comes from a source you dont respect?

If Albert Speer sent you a PM giving you "friendly advice", would you take it?

How about HARDMAN? Or CivNation?

quote: All one simply has to do is stop responding to the poster in order to kill a subject.....It becomes much easier if there are less people involved

It was dead a couple days ago, and I'd prefer it stay that way.

I realize that as a philosopher, you truly enjoy flamewars and have nothing better to do with your time, but I'd rather spend my time on Apolyton not virtually strangling someone.

	31-03-2003 15:01									#42
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FrustratedPoet: Funny that YOU mention the term TROLL. Attacking is the best defense, eh...?

The report was on a Swiss/Austrian TV station 3Sat, and was called "How the reporting becomes faking" and it featured what I explained above.

No clip was available at the web site just a text on what the schow was about

quote: Amerika im Krieg: Seit Tagen bringen die Medien ihre Bilder in Stellung. Die Front reicht bis an den Times Square. Die Schlacht gerät zum Videoclip. Moderatoren und Reporter inszenieren den Wüstenkrieg als Live-Spektakel. Dabei sein ist alles bei diesem schaurigen Event. Es gilt, die patriotische Schlacht medial zu verkaufen. (Bild: CNN)

I wont bother translating, because you'll say that that it just MY view of the translation...

Now YOU stop TROLLING.

	31-03-2003 15:02									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Asher If Albert Speer sent you a PM giving you "friendly advice", would you take it? How about HARDMAN? Or CivNation?

If it was good advice, then yes.

quote: I realize that as a philosopher, you truly enjoy flamewars and have nothing better to do with your time,

Regarding the philosopher bit....I thank you for your compliment

quote: but I'd rather spend my time on Apolyton not virtually strangling someone.

But thats all that happens here in the OT......

	31-03-2003 15:03									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Tassadar5000 If it was good advice, then yes.

What if it was incredibly stupid, obvious, and for something you already addressed?

quote: Regarding the philosopher bit....I thank you for your compliment

You can take it as one, but you know that's not how it was intended.

	31-03-2003 15:05									#45
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Hey Tass, Asher. Please.... the on-topic posts are being lost in your spam....

Cut it out...

	31-03-2003 15:07									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Daz Hey Tass, Asher. Please.... the on-topic posts are being lost in your spam.... Cut it out...

Yes, I apologize I'm Russian.....That means I can troll quite well, but I always fall victim to the victims of my troll

Meaning I've disappeared from the thread, of course

	31-03-2003 15:08									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Daz Hey Tass, Asher. Please.... the on-topic posts are being lost in your spam.... Cut it out...

As you wish, sire.

Tass: And for the record, my PM box was only blocked for 15 minutes. I didn't need it blocked after you thought it was blocked for good.

	31-03-2003 15:14									#48
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NYE:

"I refer you to Michael Moore's recent outburst. He is fairly close to the mind set of many in American media."

Moore is a fringe figure in the american media.

"But what do French people do about knowing that their President is a lying, theiving, hack? At least the Yanks require that theirs have never been caught before."

That's why they reelected Clinton and his impeachment failed? It's the same as with Chirac or Schröder, you have alternatives that suck even more to a majority of the electorate.

	31-03-2003 15:18									#49
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quote: Originally posted by HershOstropoler Moore is a fringe figure in the american media.

He's a succesful television personality, bestselling author and Oscar winner. True, he isn't necessarily the voice of the people, and certainly isn't a spokesperson for the media, but clearly his opinions are of significant interest to a very large number of people.
Personally, I think he's a vulgar, pompous, self-righteous, opinionated *******, but it's still very interesting to hear what he has to say.
Dismissing him as a 'fringe figure' doesn't seem right to me.

	31-03-2003 15:22									#50
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His own books and movies, yes. But what role does he play on the networks and in the broadsheets?

	31-03-2003 18:57									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Yes, CNN didn't show the full 15 minute long uncut material used for the CNN report. Why?

Because the footage is staged.

If they were showing the truth, why did they have to film the same soldier "attacking" an Iraqi tank twice? What the hell is the point of showing an anti-tank missile blasting an abandoned APC?

That is plain and simple propaganda.

	31-03-2003 19:03									#52
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oooo, at last someone dares to use the P word.

	31-03-2003 19:36									#53
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Of course CNN's coverage of the war has strong elements of propaganda. So does the BBC's coverage. And Al Jazeera's. Etc etc etc...

What's new?

	31-03-2003 19:45									#54
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I think both BBC and al-Jazeera are much better than CNN, though BBC's continuous display of gullibility (repeatedly reporting Umm Qsar and Basra captured by UK forces) doesn't help.

	31-03-2003 19:49									#55
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As long as the reports from journalists rely directly upon information given to them by the military on either side, or are directly monitored by the Iraqi regime (as is the case of the reporters 'on the ground' in Baghdad) then it will be impossible to avoid propaganda seeping into the news - even if the reporters have the best of intentions.

	31-03-2003 19:55									#56
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I try and stay well away from the 24 hour news networks. The very rarely have anything interesting to report. The whole thing seems to be filled with aimless speculation since their air time is so empty (even during this time of war) of anything resembling facts that they feel compelled to report every vague rumour or unsubstantiated opinion as 'news'.

I really dislike the BBC service, but sadly it's still the best TV news I've ever seen.

Which reminds me, we haven't had a "Isn't the BBC license fee a huge rip-off?" thread for a while.

	31-03-2003 20:12									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Yeah, okay, I've seen footage far worse than that on American TV stations.

You did ?!?! When and where? In a movie?

quote: BTW, I realize this wasn't a rant of yours, it was a troll. A very typical one, where the lefty Euro shrugs and sighs, puts forth a really weird and incomprehensible argument and wags a finger saying "and you guys in America wouldn't know this since your stations don't ever show it!". When, in fact, they've shown far worse than that. Sometimes live, even.

Now THIS is trolling. And second, America is the only country where dead american corpses aren't shown.

quote: Get over it -- CNN didn't deem it newsworthy to show guns jamming every time it occurs. Oh the humanity of it all.

You just didn't get what he ment. It was supposed to be all action and stuff for the camera when the gun jammed. It was all made up. Read again, slowly, and you'll understand.

Spec.

	31-03-2003 20:56									#58
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quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoet Dismissing him as a 'fringe figure' doesn't seem right to me.

He's the left's less successful version of Rush Limbaugh.

	31-03-2003 21:06									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Spectator And second, America is the only country where dead american corpses aren't shown.

Where did you get that idea from? They had no problem showing US soldiers being drug through the streets of Mogadishu.

	31-03-2003 21:21									#60
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So wait... you are saying CNN is forged because of a 'report' done by a German tv station? What makes them credible?