01-04-2003 04:19									#1
	Naval transports Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

One thing i noticed in other RTS games is that when transport ships unload on a shore, all the transports try to unload on the same spot. The result is that only about half the ships actually unload, while the others sit off shore because their is no more room to land. The result is that your incomplete land forces are slaughtered, and your helpless transports are picked off one by one. I would like to see transports that space themselves out when they land so that all your forces get off the boat at the same time(or even some boats take off after they unload so others can get on the shore.) Just a minor thing!

	01-04-2003 06:02									#2
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EE ships unload spaced out, but the larger the force the easier it is to slaughter some that end up at the eadges

there are benefits to both systems

	01-04-2003 07:41									#3
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And yet RoN takes a totaly unique aproach. If you select your units and click the water (or another land mass) your units will proceed to the water, turn into transports, and sail to the point you clicked. To attack a land mass you simply click some point inland, your transports instantly turn back into units and start fighting, no more bogging down while unloading!

	01-04-2003 12:10									#4
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wow, that a tight innovation

although some people wont like that much

	01-04-2003 17:09									#5
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Just ask enriquillo on RoNH! lol.

	01-04-2003 21:09									#6
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Autotransports still get in a jam and cause massive frustration.
Your troops still try to ship in and unload at the same point and consequently get stuck.

But that isn't the reason I hate it, it's just unrealistic and spoils the fun of watermaps.

I honestly feel transports add to the strategic depth, they don't take away tedious micro as some of you have mentioned.

	02-04-2003 03:58									#7
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yeah, im "like totally" w/ Enriquillo about this

there should be independant transort that can or cannot attack!

	02-04-2003 04:46									#8
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Man, i just don't udernstand that at all. I can understand that maybe troop movements are a bit too "free" now so it makes it feel kinda like a land battle. To that end i would suggest a system i've posted about in the past, which allows free movement but at a cost (resourses and time to build transports) OR you can simply waypoint your units through a dock and it's free. This would both promote strategy (do i have the time to send them through the dock or should i just send them over to help in the battle now? Should i build a new dock here so i can get troops there quicker or should i save my resourses?) and lower the micromanagement hassles that old transports produced.

	02-04-2003 14:27									#9
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I like the transport scheme the way it is. Except the pathing AI for loading and unloading could maybe use a bit of tweaking.

	03-04-2003 20:12									#10
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Autotransports are very fast both in transforming and in sailing across. This makes it almost impossible to intercept them, even more so because you don't know when and where they're gonna embark.
It just simplifies the whole logistic element of the game to the point of stupidity.
They've made just about every other aspect of the game more micro intensive, villagers are a long way from the smart ones we got in AoK, pathing is horrible and managing your economy is very simcity'ish. You have to build the same building in every city in order to grow your economy, which adds a lot of 'tedious' micro.

Yet the one micro element that actually 'adds' strategy was taken out, go figure

Someone made a point in another thread that you could just build towers around your coastline to prevent autotransports from landing. While a valid point later in the game, it's not practical in the early game because you can't build that many towers without totally sacrificing your economy.

On a sidenote, in the early game the only way for an enemy force to gain a foothold on your island, is to come in with a sizeable force and level one of your cities. This is not very hard to do if the city is not defended properly, just 10 heavy infantry will easily level a city. This counters the argument that Brian made that "you need additional technology to be able to -build- anything on another continent. So transporting across water still requires additional planning."

I feel this whole game is focused a bit too much on the late game while a lot of people enjoy playing and warmongering in the early game. It won't matter much, we'll still find a way to effectively rush you

	04-04-2003 01:05									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I intend on trying out the "expensive research" options so that it will take longer to age up and maybe get some more battles in the earlier ages


P.S. Enriquillo, I'm in the process of Re-reading "Return of the King" and as i was replying to you i got this immage of Aragon and Sauron bending their will on each other through the Palantir lol!

Last edited by Bridger on 04-04-2003 at 01:32

	05-04-2003 02:51									#12
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I think I'll try the expensive option as well, it sounds like a good way to really explore the early ages.
On standard settings you can upgrade so fast you hardly got time to fight because you're too busy buying upgrades and constructing your buildings.

I haven't read LotR, but I've seen the movies so I can kinda imagine what that would have been like, but a good quote would be appreciated

	05-04-2003 04:26									#13
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I don't have my copy with me, but shortly after the 2nd movie ends, Aragorn receives a Stone, called the Palantir. There used to be 7 of these stones and the kings from around all the lands would use the stones to communicate. It was kind of a magic ball that allowed the user to see things far off, as well as communcate with the other stones.

Sadly, after the northern kingdom of men fell, many of the stones passed into shadow or were destroyed. Only 3 there are known to be left. 1 was in Minis Morgul, which the dark lord Sauron took for himself. 1 was in Minis Tirith, where the Lord Denathor, Stewerd of Gondor and father of Boramir would use it as a king might. The last was in Orthanc, and this is the one Aragorn comes to posess.

Anyway, since the Orthanc stone was used by Sauruman to communcate with the Dark Lord, it was bent and corrupted to only see what the Dark Lord wanted it to see. Aragorn however, is the lawful master of the stone, as he is directly decended from the kings who first made and used the stones. He was able to wrench the stone from the grasp of the Dark lord, though it took all night, and when he was finished, a great weariness was on him.

But anyway, that whole thing probably sounds like a bunch of non-sense to those who didn't read the book. You should definatly read it though. PJ did a great job on the movies, but the books just hae so much more depth.

	08-04-2003 22:39									#14
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Enriquillo Autotransports are very fast both in transforming and in sailing across. This makes it almost impossible to intercept them, even more so because you don't know when and where they're gonna embark. It just simplifies the whole logistic element of the game to the point of stupidity. They've made just about every other aspect of the game more micro intensive, villagers are a long way from the smart ones we got in AoK, pathing is horrible and managing your economy is very simcity'ish. You have to build the same building in every city in order to grow your economy, which adds a lot of 'tedious' micro. Yet the one micro element that actually 'adds' strategy was taken out, go figure

In other words RON sucks arse?

	09-04-2003 14:48									#15
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quote: In other words RON sucks arse?

On the contrary, I'm starting to like it more and more.

I'm just a bit frustrated that they took out transports ruining the fun for me on my favorite map: small islands.

I was a bit harsh in that reply you quoted, even though pathing needs to be worked on as well as the not so smart villies.
The micro bit was just to illustrate that the argument of getting rid of so called tedious micro doesn't convince me.

If they can optimize pathing and villies, they got a great game. If not, well there's always the sequel to EE to wait for

	09-04-2003 18:12									#16
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Enriquillo, you havn't even played beta 3 have you? Man it's like KNIGHT and DAY (pun). Seriously, beta 3 is so much more polished, and it's still a month old! They got another 2 months of work basically from beta 3 so i'm sure they'll have the AI stuff worked out by then. Already in 3 i felt the AI being smoother and smarter.

One thing i'm not sure about, villigers should NOT automatically go to work in an industry that is at the limit. Sometimes i'll create a woodcutters hut and just put 2 guys in it cause then woods at the limit, then i'll make 3 villies to put on farms, but something happens and when i come back they are gone and my wood light is going off :\

	10-04-2003 15:49									#17
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quote: Enriquillo, you havn't even played beta 3 have you?

Nope, I got Beta 2 after signing up at the official RoN site, but never received an e-mail with my Betaplace ID

Beta2 is ok for awhile but it's buggy and crashes regularly, also it's hard to find anyone online.
I can't really discuss the finer points of gamebalance either, because a lot seems to have changed in Beta 3 , so most of my complaints might have been adressed already.