01-04-2003 05:40									#1
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Well, chaps, Your Holiness, Blessed Father, and Cardinals of the Church,

As you know, King Togas, Ordained by God, has purchased the Gospels of Sts. Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John from the Arabs for a hefty price. Yes, that's right, Polytheism was, unfortunately, all a bit rubbish. In fact, we recently discovered that the chap who invented it was a Vaudevillian.

Inspired by the truths of the Gospels, I have, for efficient spreading of the Good News, purchased the whole of Vatican Hill, which now serves as its own city. Vatican City will be the home of the Pontiff, and the Cardinals, and the seat of the Universal Church. Hip-hip, hoo-ray!

So, where St. Peter's Basillica is concerned, how about it? White, or pink marble, eh?

Squid is available at some decent taberna near the construction site.

Inside the Curia, the Cardinals will convene to hand over the keys of the Church to Cardinal Tacticus, who will be Pope No. 1. He can choose his own titles, too, God bless him.

So, chaps, let us set up the Church's foundations, eh, what?

So far, as Cardinals, we have...
Tacticus...soon to be Pope,
Calamari...
and Cian.

Cardinal Fernand de History Guy Calamari

	01-04-2003 07:02									#2
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OOC: We don't have Monotheism yet, but I suppose it won't hurt to discuss how it will affect our nation. In my opinion, this technology should have a dramatic change to our roleplay.

First off, Spain will adopt one faith, and one faith only. All Spaniards will worship that faith or else. We must decide if we want to take on a historical faith like Christianity or take on one of our fictious faiths.

We will have a church. We will have a "Pope" or other major religious leader. The Church will handle justice and crimes and inquisitions. The Pope can name Cardinals, etc, and should have a say in how the nation is run ... which should focus mostly on the happiness of the people.

Alternativly, my "Most Trusted Advisor" can become the Pope.

We MAY have a religious city like Vatican City created. I leave this idea up for debate.

If you have other ideas, please post them.

--Togas

	01-04-2003 07:06									#3
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idea: Those who are not dukes may choose to be Cardinals. The Cardinals should convene and elect a Pope.

--Togas

	01-04-2003 07:22									#4
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ooc:

I'd like to suggest that Vatican City be an alloted portion of Madrid, actually.

Also, I thought it had been agreed that we'd do Christianity, so as to be a bit more...Spanish.

I agree where the Pope is concerned.

	01-04-2003 07:24									#5
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My Lord King,

The makeshift Curia is now open for the election of the Holy Spanish Pontiff of the Universal Church.

Cardinal Fernand de History Guy Calamari

	01-04-2003 13:22									#6
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The House of Tacticus would like to nominate Marcos Navarro Tacticus as the first Spanish Pontiff.

	01-04-2003 21:02									#7
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*Cardinal Calamari, in his vermilion outfit that denotes the position of Cardinal, struts forward in a squid-like pose*

I second that motion, and bless it, in the Name of the Most Holy Trinity.

May Cardinal Tacticus be our first Pope, and our most holy one.

	01-04-2003 23:19									#8
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The House Cian nominates Aidun Cian the older, to become the first Pope.

	01-04-2003 23:33									#9
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Pablo Arenhos Winterius, adopted son of Polaris Winterius, nominates for cardinal.

	01-04-2003 23:35									#10
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Togas, I think Santiago de Compostalla will serve uintil we conquer some city of GoW or ND.

But Santiago should get a cathedral in time, or do you want the clergy to have to hold their divine services in a pagan temple?

Aidun Cian the older,

Cardinal

	02-04-2003 00:12									#11
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I, the younger son of Thud Quixote I, Paul Quixote, wish to become ordained as a cardinal of the Church.

(christianity seems to be the logical choice for spain... but if someone comes up with another religion that is fine)

	02-04-2003 01:04									#12
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Ehm, Togas, we are getting a lot of cardinals, perhaps we should have bishops and cardinals: The bishop of Madrid is the arch bishop, the old priests the cardinals and the new priests the bishops...
This does not mean thet the old priests are superior to the bishops...

Aidun Cian the older,

Cardinal

	02-04-2003 03:03									#13
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Cardinal Cian,

I believe you do not understand ecclesiastical matters. You see, the Cardinal is the highest Bishop. A missionary Bishop can be sent out to his own diocese to serve as Cardinal and also as the Bishop of that region. The Cardinals are the Bishops who have the right to elect the Pope, or can be the Pope.

Cardinals Winterius and Quixote, we welcome you.

Cardinal Calamari

	02-04-2003 03:21									#14
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Well, I understand the catholic church very well:
[ooc]I'm very known with it[/ooc]

Bishops serve as regional representives of the cardinals and the Pope.

Each province of the Church has a cardinal at it's head and bishops under him for the smaller regions. A bishop has several deans under him and the deans have local priests under them.

Considering Spain a province of the Church, it should have but 1 cardinal, some bishops, etc.

Bishops may be formally lower than cardinals, I do not want to deny others the richt to vote for the new Pope, but five judges, isn't that a bit too much?
It was already complex enough with the watcher judging on his own.

Aidun Cian the older,

Cardinal

	02-04-2003 03:33									#15
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Grrr...you are right.

Of course...if the Curia only has one Cardinal...he may as well be a Pope. It would be pointless.

Besides, sadly, the Holy Mother Church has not put missions anywhere else yet. These Arabs were nearly won over, but found something else called Islam.

[ooc] Meet another Catholic, old chap. [/ooc]

Cardinal Calamari

	02-04-2003 04:35									#16
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OK, we need to come up with a good system for our new Monotheism. Here is what I propose:

Instead of just having 1 cardinal over all of Spain, let's do this: each REGION in Spain shall have 1 Cardinal. Every city shall have a Bishop (who may or may not be a character). The Cardinals shall gather and choose one of them to serve as Pope who serves for life. The Pope will reside in Madrid until one of our cities builds him a Cathedral. Our services shall be held in temples (converted to our new faith) until each of our cities can afford to upgrade to Cathedrals.

Regions: (taken from Arnelos' old post in the Map Room thread)

Castile (Spain, "Calamari-city-to-be-named") -- History Guy
Navarre (Pamplona) -- GenTac
Aragon (Zaragoza) -- Aidun
Leon (Leon) -- ??? this region's name changed. Used to be Asturias
Galicia (Santiago, Vigo) -- Nuc Winter
Catalonia (Barcelona) -- Thud

Therefore, we have 1 missing Cardinal spot for whomever wants it. We will add more spots as we add regions and the Pope will be free to change these appointments as he pleases.

The 6 Cardinals shall vote for a Pope. If there is a tie I'll break the tie.

Note: Once we have a Pope I would prefer to see Dukes not also be Cardinals. If we have enough active members let's try to make the non-governors/Duke our Cardinals. Those individuals will work with the Pope to manage the faith, happiness, culture, and justice of the Kingdom.

--Togas

	02-04-2003 05:57									#17
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I thank you for your mete and just jurisdiction of the empire for the dioceses.

As Cardinal of Castile, I shall serve as the Pope's Chaplain (if I don't become the Pope sometime in the future...), as well as the Diocesan Council head. I shall reside in Madrid until a more suitable location is found by the King.

Cardinal Calamari

	02-04-2003 18:07									#18
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Togas, thank you for the clear structure that you've designed.

Cardinal Calamari, can you explain me what the Diocesan Council is? I can't remember that we have found it already.

Cardinal Aidun Cian the older

	02-04-2003 18:26									#19
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Only one true god? That's amazing! :eek!:

So what about all those spirits that have been populating Spain since the begining of times? I'm pretty sure that they exist, our ancestors had to fight agains some of them, and were also blessed by some others. Could it be that this spirits are all at the service of God?

	02-04-2003 18:29									#20
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Some of them, senor oliverFA. The lesser ones were angels, servants of God, or demons, servants of Satan. The greater ones, however, were manifestations of either God or Satan, depending on whether they were good or evil.

	02-04-2003 18:35									#21
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Satan? This name is new for me.

* takes his hand to his sword and looks nervously around.

And this Satan, you say it's evil. We should protect our nation against him!

	02-04-2003 18:37									#22
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Against Satan himself, arms are useless. Only faith can protect you. He is the lord of the Underworld, the one who rebelled against God and now seeks to turn the whole world to his evil.

	02-04-2003 21:01									#23
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I suggest praying to someone like St. Hernan de Calamari, the first Spanish saint, for protection against demons, for during his exile he wrestled them in the deserts.

The best way to distinguish angels from demons are to look at the signs. Usually, angels wear white clothes, and have harps. Sometimes, though, they have four faces, and eyes all over their body, and wheels, and the lot. But mostly, look for the harps.

Demons, on the other hand, run around in goatees with forkbeards, goat-legs, and pitchforks. They are bad guys.

The Diocesan Council declares what is the common Ecclesiastical Law of each diocese, Cardinal Cian. It is overseen by the Pope and the Cardinal of Castile.

Cardinal Calamari of Castile
Righteous Squid Baron

	03-04-2003 03:31									#24
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Cardinal Calamari, how can you declare yourself head of that council. I suggest that we elect a head of the council.

Cardinal Aidun Cian the older

	03-04-2003 05:41									#25
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Remember the New Devils?

Satan is kinda like that, except diplomacy with him is strictly forbidden, and our military wouldn't do a very good job crushing him.

	03-04-2003 07:01									#26
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Cardinal Cian,

I am the Cardinal of Castile. If you wish to be Cardinal of Castile, you can have the Diocesan Council, for in Castile it is stationed, in the Vatican, in Madrid, in the heart of the Church. How could it be anyway else?

Perhaps Cardinal Winterius would like the job, then? I am sure, Cardinal Cian, being on the entire other side of the vast empire, and being a governor, you can afford little time to it.

If you quibble with my holding the position, then, I suggest simply electing a Pope, and allowing him to place those whom he wishes in the position, for the Pope is the head of the church, and not a Cardinal.

Cardinal Calamari

	03-04-2003 09:42									#27
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AHEM.

The Cardinals need to assemble and elect a Pope, not just talk about electing one. Please use this thread to decide who amongst you will be our religious leader.

--Togas

	03-04-2003 12:15									#28
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I have already stated my desire to stand for Pope. Does anyone else wish to?

	03-04-2003 14:29									#29
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Yes, I have nominated myself too.

Cardinal Calamari, I do not wish to deny you an important position, but I believe in fair procedures. I did not know that the chairmanship of the Diocesan Council is something that belonged to the cradinal of Castilia. Now that I know it, I support you.
I also wnt to let you know that I shall declare you to become my most important advisor if I am elected to Pope, because I attach much importance to the Diocesan Council.

Be blessed, my friend.

Cardinal Aidun Cian the older

	04-04-2003 03:17									#30
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Cardinal Aidun, my friend, I thank you.

However, I believe I must put in my vote for the greatest, holiest man in Spain, Cardinal Tacticus, who, though an old man, has led a great and good life, and should be the first Bishop of Madrid, so that we may cement a glorious church here in Rome.

The Ballots...

Cardinal Tacticus
Cardinal Cian
Cardinal Winterus (?)

I vote for Cardinal Tacticus.

Cardinal Calamari