02-04-2003 00:15									#1
	TIPS: Small-Medium Map, First Few Dozen Turns Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Some tips a few of the frustrated players on the board might find useful since playing the first several turns well is *crucial* to success. These are simply my home-grown ideas. I bet there are even better ones out there from better players, so please share!:

** Rush buy --at the longest lease plan-- colony ships for however many good planets (rating of 15 or higher if at all possible) are nearby. Use the survey ship to scout if needed. If this means 4 rush buys, do it! 4 15+ planets that early will give you a huge advantage later.

** IMPORTANT: During these first crucial turns, set both military and social to ZERO! Why? Well, if you are rush-buying ships, that money on military is wasted! And what techs do you have available to you the first several turns? Soil Enhancement and Entertainment -- well, your planets are already more than good enough, and so will be your morale for a while!

It's also important to realize that buying social stuff you don't need yet comes with an insidious dark side: Maintenance! That's right. That fancy entertainment system you didn't need just then anyway is costing you precious upkeep that needs to go some other direction.

Therefore, 100% tech for the first few turns. After all:

1) It's better tech that will open more pressing social spending options to begin with.

2) It's better tech that will allow you the ability to speak with alien civs and start to trade more tech, which will begin the foundation for being able to pay for your leases.

3) It's better tech that will open up the ability to trade, which will further dig you out of your early money problems. Yes, it's O.K. to go in the negative numbers (up to 500b.c.) in these early turns! Don't worry. You'll recover.

Of course, you'll need a scout in order to get contact with the other civs. This is *hugely* important. So, after your colony ships, you can rush-buy a scout (or up the military spending and make one in 2 turns), switching all other planets to constructor ships.

At this point, you want to put about even money to tech and military because you want a constructor ship claiming resources ASAP. Trust me, the AI is already on its way. If there are no resources nearby, build the starbase near you and focus on econ.

After all, what other ships will you build at this point? If your survey ship is doing it's work properly, you'll likely get a free ship or two, and these should be pulled back to your planets for early defense. Oh, it's not that the AI will attack this early, but a free ship or two raises your military rating high enough that for several turns nobody will want to pick a fight with you.

This is also the place to reiterate the maintenance issue brought up earlier: Buying too many ships before you need it not only hurts your starbase production but incurs deadly upkeep costs.

Thus, keep the constructors coming for as long as possible, building up econ bonuses first, then switch to offensive ships just enough to look scary to other civs. Attack when you feel like, if ever.

When do you start some social spending?

When something is now useful enough for you to buy it! Once morale starts to drop, for example, consider entertainment stuff. Etc. In other words, develop an aggressive JIT (Just In Time) strategy to your spending, putting that first 2000b.c., the ability to go into debt 500b.c., and the ability to setup leases to maximum leverage.

Every turn is crucial in the early game. Use them wisely!!! If you have doubts about this strat ... try it!

	02-04-2003 01:54									#2
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I've never thought to mess with the sliders on the econ screen, although I've seen them from time to time. I'll have to give that a shot tonight.

	02-04-2003 21:40									#3
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yin and all, I'm still trying to learn the game and my firsts attempts are econ failures. I'm asking here again since nobody answered me in Help forum: what to do exactly in order to have income on new colonies? I have good morale, class 13-16 2nd and 3rd planet and 0 income, some expenses. The AI opponents that I know have their very newly founded colonies already pumping some income even with low pop.... What am i missing here?????

	02-04-2003 23:23									#4
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Population. You're dumping about half your planet size for each colony you start. With the purchase of these colony ships, you lose money on the loan and on the lack of population to tax at the initial stages. I usually don't start making money until I research Trade. Just try to keep your rate of loss small so it takes your empire longer to hit bottom. Don't worry; the money will come.

	03-04-2003 05:28									#5
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ok. perhaps I had bad starts so far. Like some said, better have class 15 and over especially if it takes too long for well-established trade routes and starbases.

	03-04-2003 12:42									#6
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The higher the planet class, the higher the income. You only get income from class 15 and above, but from my experience, you should look for even higher class planet. Don't be too eager to colonize unless you are playing a map with few hospitable planet.

	03-04-2003 12:47									#7
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quote: The higher the planet class, the higher the income. You only get income from class 15 and above, but from my experience, you should look for even higher class planet. Don't be too eager to colonize unless you are playing a map with few hospitable planet.

Are you saying not to colonize every class 15 planet, but to wait till you find higher class planets?

	03-04-2003 17:58									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Lemmy quote: The higher the planet class, the higher the income. You only get income from class 15 and above, but from my experience, you should look for even higher class planet. Don't be too eager to colonize unless you are playing a map with few hospitable planet. Are you saying not to colonize every class 15 planet, but to wait till you find higher class planets?

Perhaps, if you're playing on a map you've set with abundant hospitable planets ( v1.01 ). If few hospitable planets, then don't hesitate for 15 - and the 14s only after having colonized the better. Too much of lesser class planets in the early stages and your economy is ruined, that's what I've just learned in my firsts attempts.

	03-04-2003 19:16									#9
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Correct: There are certainly very good strategic reasons for taking planents lower than 15 (exerting your influence in key regions, being able to stage battle farther out in other sectors, ability to upgrade them to great planets later--which will also help keep pop booms going and morale hight, etc.).

However, those planets take time and many upgrades before they begin to turn a profit. I'd say if you don't have at least two 15+ planets colonized in the very early game, you're almost doomed ... at least this is true on a higher difficulty level.

	06-04-2003 13:06									#10
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@Yin&all
Some questions, because I'm still crumbling to dust:

1. The rush build is quite complicated, I usually go bankrupt some turns later, when using this strategy.

2. When (with what technology, or with how many) would you say it's ok to reduce the research?

3. If you don't build the maintenace-costing buildings, the AI will, and than you'll loose your sectors thanks to culture flip.

4. what about TG's and Achievements?

5. How do you build a constructor in the beginning of the game, without paying leases till you die, or put the military to 100% while the AI researchs you out.

Somehow I've got the feeling, that there must be something I don't get here. Thanks a lot for your help!

	07-04-2003 00:47									#11
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1) If you plan to buy your stuff, you should set the military budget to zero.

2) Don't ever reduce research. You must get diplomatic translators to talk to other races. This allow you to do some tech trading, as most races is likely to embark on a different path. Research is your only profitable option from the start. Minor races can pay a lot of cash for it in the near future. After this, go for trade so your can build freighters and make sure all minor nations can as well, so they can trade with you.

3) If you can't build up a strong economy, no point in worrying about culture flip. You would have lost the game either way. Unless you are in the same or adjacent sector, I doubt any races can have cultural effect so strong to trouble you at that stage.

4) No comment

5) You don't need contructors near the start, except to established a starbase to increase your range so that your colony ships can colonize further away. Only build plenty when you are going to established trade routes. They will be very useful at this stage as they can further increase your trade income. If you are at war, they serve as a bait for enemy ships and also help you defend your sector. Generally, best build in a sector with many planets. They can give all your planets in that sector tremendous boost in production and shipbuilding.

	07-04-2003 21:01									#12
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"1. The rush build is quite complicated, I usually go bankrupt some turns later, when using this strategy."

As noted, put military spending to zero when buying ships. Also, you *will* start going in the red here ... this is why you've got to locate other civs (get a scout out ASAP) and start trading for a profit!

"2. When (with what technology, or with how many) would you say it's ok to reduce the research?"

I don't reduce research. When I'm buying ships, I put military to zero. I also have social to zero for the first bunch of turns until I actually need a morale boost or a better planet. But you will *always* need better tech so you can do better in trading.

"3. If you don't build the maintenace-costing buildings, the AI will, and than you'll loose your sectors thanks to culture flip. "

You'll have to start building them when your morale drops and in anticipation of needing a better planet for better production, etc. Just not in the first dozen or two turns.

"4. what about TG's and Achievements?"

I ignore them mostly depending on my strategic plan. If I'm going for a culture win (for example), I might dedicate a planet to things that will give me a greater edge.

"5. How do you build a constructor in the beginning of the game, without paying leases till you die, or put the military to 100% while the AI researchs you out."

I don't lease constructors unless it's do or die. But if the AI is coming to take a resource, I'd seriously look at leasing ... it's O.K. if you have to pay for a long, long time.

"Somehow I've got the feeling, that there must be something I don't get here. Thanks a lot for your help!"

Post back with your progress!

	07-04-2003 22:26									#13
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@BlueDevil & Yin 26

Hey thanks a LOT! Now some things have cleared up to me.

Still though, I don't like leasing anymore. After a whole weekend of loosing one game after the other thanks to an unraveling "you've reached -500bc..." I'm standing a bit on the economical side right now.

Thus said, I'm trying another strategy:
Build Social Enhancement and Habitat Improvement first, *then* research trade, and with the first trade routes, slowly increase military, and eventually social spending.

Instead of having five morale eating (16+) planets, I'll have three cheering (20+) planets. (at turn 12)

I'll report how that works out. Wish me luck. ;-)

	08-04-2003 00:17									#14
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Gelvan,

It sounds like you're getting the hang of it; the beauty of this game is that there are multiple paths to victory, even from the start. So, just to toss in my $.02:

I never lease anything, at least not long-term leases; it kills your cash flow. I buy a few items straight out (the first colony ship, for sure) and then crank them out with the high production (sliding the production scale all the way up to 100% until I run out of cash.) One of the main aspects of the game is managing to keep your cash flow up to support production; it sounds like you're learning one main way to do that, with trade routes. If you can keep your production high, you don't need to lease your first ships, you can just produce them fairly rapidly. In short order you can produce ships in 5-6 turns on Earth, which helps with the second wave of expansion.

Even later in the game, being able to keep up your cash flow means you can keep production at over 80% without having to raise taxes too high. This makes all the difference when it comes to turning out those high resource projects that you really want.

	08-04-2003 00:20									#15
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

If you focus more on research at the beginning, your deficit won't be as bas because you're not spending money building anything. I try to go ten-fifteen turns without building anything then go straight to habitat improvements. I also try to focus on economic improvements for each colony while building one mondo production planet. I had a couple of games that didn't hit negative until later when I relied heavily on trade.

	08-04-2003 01:11									#16
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Yeah, won my first game, with whoppy 59 pt. (allied victory)

It seems to work, at least on a small map on beginner - I've had 5 planets and 3000 bc in the end, nearly every sector under control.

The key was the beginning, as I mentioned above, to build Soul Enhancement and Habit Improvement as fast as possible, thereby switching between Social and Research, then straight forward to Trade and Moral Improvements. (with a short trip to Impulse Drivers (to get Transports) to surpass the period where the Pop Growth is to fast to maintain high morale - I put those unhappy people on some nearby star systems and lost them eventually to the Independent league, who were friendly as long I gave them some trade goods).

Of course on higher difficulties and bigger maps the AI would colonize faster and supposingly they're not as nice as they were in this game. But all in all, I've got a "feeling" for Economy now, which should also help on the higher difficulties.

thanks for the tips here and on Galvic.com!

	08-04-2003 01:35									#17
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Even if you don't need a particular Trade Good, and still can afford to build one or two on productive planets, then do it. ka-ching: the AI pay well for TGs, you can kiss goodbye to an economic stagnation (at least in my games so far ) but that's for mid-game and late-game. Very early game: I prefer using slowly my 1000 bc towards a high spend rate - when I reach red, contacts with some civs are already made and trade is at hand.

	09-04-2003 06:40									#18
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A few comments on leasing and trading:
I have only a few games (2 won, 1 lost, 1 abandonned after it crashed thrice, 1 ongoing). I tried various strategies, and found out several are available. The one which worked better (against normal AI) is:
Rush-buy at the lowest total cost. Thus little or no leasing. This can lose you a turn and make your start slower, so maybe leasing is a good strategy too, but I think it coss more so it's bad unless you really profit from the small window of opportunity it provides to gain a star or resource. Trade techs (or other stuff) at maximum (cost*time).
The AI tends to buy a tech like either 100$ now or 200$ over 10 turns. By repeatedly selling techs for tribute like that (over 10 to 20 turns), I managed to avoid building things which increase morale or economy, keep my expenses at 100% all the time. I started building banks very late when the game told me I had an income of 108bc and my fleet cost 136bc to upkeep. That was not much of a problem really, considering I earned about 1000bc per turn form tech trading...

Note that when I say buy at the lowest price, you should do the math sometimes, because the cheapest is not necessarily the immediate buy. Sometimes you can buy cheaper with a lease.

	09-04-2003 08:08									#19
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Things like banking centers, economic exchanges, and the like should be built as soon as you get them- they don't have any upkeep!


My usual early-game build list is soil imp, habit imp, fusion power plant, manu power plant, bank, econo exchange, research center. That usually puts me with a decent chunk of "discretionary" that I can either put into the productivity slider or burn with other improvements in a few planets - shipyards and the like.

Stuff I've NEVER built:

News Network
Embassy
Any of the "Entertainment only" line
Any of the "Culture only" line

I make a point of going after the morale-improving techs and trade goods, and these are enough to keep my people smiling.

	09-04-2003 16:21									#20
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I'm still inexperienced at the game but Soil improvement seems to be a good thing to get as early as possible. It makes the planets happier, increasing population growth and allowing you to tax them more. With a small amount of money spent on propaganda in the class 15 planets a 60% tax rate is quite sustainable.I'll have to try out the all-tech route to see how it compares.

	10-04-2003 00:20									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Fried-Psitalon Stuff I've NEVER built: News Network Embassy Any of the "Entertainment only" line Any of the "Culture only" line I make a point of going after the morale-improving techs and trade goods, and these are enough to keep my people smiling.

Give it a few difficulty levels; you'll be building all those things, too. Certainly at the easier levels, it's rare that you need to build entertainment and culture, as they tend to come automatically when you're ahead of everybody else and have all the trade goods. Once the AI can out-spend (and therefore out-build) you, though, and when the Drengins or other hostile races are pumping money into destabalizing your people -- at that point, you'll be doing everything you can to keep your people happy and your culture expanding.

The Embassy and News Network can be useful even at lower levels; they push out culture expansion and economy points which are always helpful. I end up eventually building anything that is +economy on all difficultylevels, since at its core a large part of the game comes down to being able to finance however you plan on winning (research, military, etc.)

	10-04-2003 17:26									#22
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Furthermore with the 5% bonus you've already paid the maintenance.

	10-04-2003 18:14									#23
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*Does* the 5 percent bonus always pay at least the maintenence on some structures? I seem to recall a few very brief tests I did saying 'no.'

I was under the impression that the AI didn't get "cheat bonuses" like extra money or production on the higher difficulty levels- is this incorrect?

And at the moment, playing gigantic map/all AIs set to "Bright".... I still don't need any of the entertainment/news structures.

(Though admittedly this game isn't far along.)

	10-04-2003 22:57									#24
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Whether the bonus pays for the structure depends on the size of your economy: on a small planet that has little money flowing through it, 5% won't mean much. On a massive planet it is quite helpful.

The AI does get more money from taxes at the Genius and Incredible intelligence levels. The specifics are in the faq that lists exactly what the various difficulty levels get you. As far as economics in general, I'd recommend reading the notes Brad put up that deals with some undocumented parts of the game. Quite helpful when it comes to figuring out how to keep the economy rolling.