02-04-2003 00:20									#1
	courthouses Support Apolyton

I build some before and never seen their effects. So they seem to be a waste of money. Can you make them worth it or are they just crappy. I looked at police station and it says reduces war weariness. Like I would care about that

	02-04-2003 00:33									#2
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Courthouses can be useful, even though the effects may not be immense. The problem is probably that you're building them in cities so far away from the capitol/FP that the normal corruption penalties override the courthouse's benefits. Trust me, they work.

	02-04-2003 03:40									#3
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Courthouses + police stations + we love the king day will help many cities produce much more. Of course the size of the map matters in terms of how effective your courthouses appear. The smaller the map, the less you'll notice. Courthouses will also help cities near to the FP or Palace, this is where it's most noticible.

	02-04-2003 18:09									#4
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Police stations helps only in PTW or in some patch? cause it doesn't say in the civilizopedia that they reduce corruption!!

	02-04-2003 18:42									#5
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Police stations reducing corruption was added in one of the early patches IIRC.

As a rule, courthouses aren't much use in highly corrupt cities, and aren't much use in cities with very low corruption. They are most useful in the ring of cities around your palace where corruption is (very roughly) 50%. The effect you see is not massive, but the combination of a courthouse, police station and 'we love the king day' can bring a city with 80-90% corruption up to about 50% efficiency, which is worth the effort.

	02-04-2003 19:31									#6
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Capital/FP city - no significant benefit

Closest ring of cities - no real benefit until losing 3 or 4 shields.

Next ring out - worth building fairly early.

Further out than that - you will never get much from a city further than two out from the Capital/FP. A courthouse will make a difference but not much. It takes a courthouse and a police station to get any meaningful production out of such cities.

	02-04-2003 21:01									#7
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Courthouses are ESSENTIAL to have an efficient empire.

I typically build them in every city except my capitol and my forbidden palace city. I later add police stations, which have the dual effect of further reducing corruption and reducing war weariness.

quote: Capital/FP city - no significant benefit Closest ring of cities - no real benefit until losing 3 or 4 shields. Next ring out - worth building fairly early.

That's a pretty good guideline. However, the last part I didn't quote various QUITE A BIT depending on map size (and to a lesser extent difficulty level). I normally play on Standard maps, and I find I can get 3 or 4 rings out from my Capitol or FP and have reasonably productive cities if I have courthouses + "We Love the King Day." Throw in the Police and things get even better.

-Arrian

	03-04-2003 01:48									#8
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Commercial civs experience lower corruption which makes courthouses more efficent. With police station and WLTK-day you can have productive cities 15-20 tiles or more away from your FP/palace(on a standard map)

	04-04-2003 14:21									#9
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quote: Originally posted by bongo Commercial civs experience lower corruption which makes courthouses more efficent. With police station and WLTK-day you can have productive cities 15-20 tiles or more away from your FP/palace(on a standard map)

... and even 'only' 80% corruption 35 tiles away (on a huge map).

	04-04-2003 15:47									#10
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Sligthly OT but what kind of a computer du you use when you play on huge maps?

	04-04-2003 17:39									#11
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Hi,

I have a feeling, that when I try to reduce a corruption and build a courthouse, the effect delays a bit. I don't see immedietly a lower corruption, but it decreases in next few turns?

Are my feelings right?

	04-04-2003 18:59									#12
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I have the same feeling but I can't back it up with facts.

	04-04-2003 21:05									#13
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Arrian, when do you build courthouses? Say you conquer a city, far far away. Which do you build first, a temple or a courthouse? Does the courthouse come before the library? Do you crank out workers until the city is size [n] THEN build a courthouse, and if so, what size is [n]?

I build courthouses... they definitely help... but I build them fairly late in the game (industrial era for my core and sub-core cities, modern era for the far flung possessions)

	10-04-2003 12:59									#14
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quote: Originally posted by bongo Sligthly OT but what kind of a computer du you use when you play on huge maps?

You ask ME? How do I know?

I believe I have a 900 Mhz 256 K RAM with a 21'' (the screen is just for Civ!).

Of course, it takes 1 min approx. between each turn, but the that's why kids around are fun (up to 9 p.m., that is). After that, an 'old' SF/fantasy book keeps you occupied.

BTW, who said 'I am but an egg?'. Since it's not Anne Mc Caffrey, is it H. Turtledove ?

P.S. Of course, computer speed does not improve a courthouse efficiency

	10-04-2003 13:36									#15
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When to build a courthouse? A: when you need to...

WHat I do is keep track of the production in my cities. If I see that 50% of my shields and trade is going away to corruption, the courthouse is first priority. If only 10 or 20% of the production is being lost, I can wait with the courthouse and build a temple, library instead.

Also, if I have only 1 shield production and 9 going away to corruption, it doesnt help either. Deal with that with a FP.

So as you see, there is no rule.

	10-04-2003 13:43									#16
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Your computer is twice as fast as mine then and you got a 2" bigger screen. I think I wait with playing on huge maps until I get a faster computer.

I know who 'the eggman' is but I don't know much abut SF/fantasy.

	12-04-2003 02:51									#17
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Courthouses definately help on conquered cities. I usually build eithier temple-library-courthouse or temple-courthouse-library depending on what the level of corruption is. If my cash position is good, I will rush the temple. If corruption is very bad and my cash is good, I will rush the courthouse also.

Courthouses do take time to become effective. (It takes time to try all those cases!). What the exact relationship is on how much effect they have, I just don't know. Over time they work fairly well. The addition of police stations and having WLTKD can make a distant conquered city pretty viable in production terms.

	12-04-2003 03:00									#18
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Wait, are you saying that courthouses become more effective over time? If I build a courthouse in city X and city X's population doesn't change for, say, 20 turns, the courthouse will be more effective on turn 20?

	12-04-2003 03:07									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Yahweh Sabaoth Wait, are you saying that courthouses become more effective over time? If I build a courthouse in city X and city X's population doesn't change for, say, 20 turns, the courthouse will be more effective on turn 20?

This appears to be the case from my experience. Although I have not conducted a formal test to determine this. Initially, when a courthouse is built, I see little to no drop in corruption levels. Looking back in 10-20 turns I do notice lowered corruption levels. This would seem to imply that there effectiveness does increase over time.

	12-04-2003 03:09									#20
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wow.

I hope some can verify/rebut this.

	12-04-2003 03:24									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Yahweh Sabaoth wow. I hope some can verify/rebut this.

Me too.

	14-04-2003 07:04									#22
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If a courthouse can add 1 shield to a city that only produces 1 shield after corruption, I find that extremely useful. That 2nd shield means you can build anything twice as fast as before. A combination of courthouses and good palace/FP placement will decrease your corruption significantly.

	14-04-2003 07:15									#23
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Plato, I don't think what you're stating is true. It's probably due to the fact that your city grows within that time and therefore produces more shields. However, the ratio probably stayed the same. You might notice some irregularities with the rounding though...

--Kon--

	15-04-2003 09:30									#24
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Courthouses and police stations are most effective for late game pushes under communism, where your core cities will experience corruption. Being in a democracy, then having to switch for a potental war to commy without a core built with courthouses and police stations can really hurt your economy. Also under communism almost any location on the map can have descent sheild production with both Courthouse and policestation.....although the lower rate of trade means you'll never equal a well designed democracy's research rate....but when you've got tanks, and set your self to war mobilization, who cares? ^_^

	15-04-2003 20:09									#25
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Uhh, courthouses do not become more effective over time, except that over time your cities grow, you may chance into a better system of government, and you may get cities into "We Love the President Day."

Their corruption/waste-fighting power is fixed (though I confess I'm not exactly sure what it is... 25% reduction?).

-Arrian

	15-04-2003 23:44									#26
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I thought it was 50%, but only for corruption that exists because of distance from the capital. When you go over the ONC, extra corruption is added in distant cities, and I don't know if courthouses affect this corruption at all (correct me if I'm wrong please).

Communism is wonderful in a gigantic empire with courthouses and police stations.

	18-04-2003 01:54									#27
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Yeah they do help some I also moved my capital and the city that lost the capital lost production and the city that gained it gained production. The main reason I moved it was because my capital was near the ocean.

	18-04-2003 07:53									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Uhh, courthouses do not become more effective over time, except that over time your cities grow, you may chance into a better system of government, and you may get cities into "We Love the President Day." Their corruption/waste-fighting power is fixed (though I confess I'm not exactly sure what it is... 25% reduction?). -Arrian

I bet what I was seeing was a WLTPD. Thought that it was weird to see the courthouse producing better results over time. It looks like what I was seeing had to be something else. Thanks for the info folks!

	20-04-2003 03:17									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Mountain Sage BTW, who said 'I am but an egg?'. Since it's not Anne Mc Caffrey, is it H. Turtledove ?

Heinlein, MS.

As in "I am but an egg. In time, I will grok the fullness of Civ3."

	20-04-2003 03:19									#30
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Courthouses, like ALL OTHER BUILDINGS, get build everywhere.

EDIT:

Well, maybe that's a bit much.

But as I do try to get just about every town and city contributing to the cause, there are certain things that I gotta have. and courthouses are one of them.