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GodKing
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Detroit
Feb 2002
time: 00:27
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Operation: Arabian Oysters - or a Plan to Snip our Northern Neighbors
Objective: To turn the Arab nation of ND into a non threat, or, as appropriate, to completely assimilate their lands.
Operational Objectives: Capture of the city of Anagramaskus and all territory south thereof. If our strategic offensive forces allow, march north to the city of Dar-El-Killam. The taking of these two cities would spell the effective end of ND as a viable nation.
Strategic Overview – ND
- Despotism (pop rush)
- Week military compared to ours
- They do have offensive units (although they are probably towards the north)
- Cities are centrally located around capitol (low corruption)
- Cities are generally small.
- Good relationship with GoW
Strategic Overview – Espania
- Monarchy
- Broke (currently have about 200 GP in bank, and are spending 20 gpt on unit support, 10 gpt for 15 turns to Lego & 6 gpt to ND for 20 turns starting in 900 bc. That will make us a nation in debit of 5gpt until new cities are founded to alleviate our military expences)
- Strong Military, including 14 spear, 4 sword, 5 warriors (3 are currently planned on being upgraded to swords) and 2 horseman. We have 5 workers and 2 settlers.
- Lots of resources and good land.
The Plan: Three strike groups will invade. I am using current unit types; however as I suspect that Feudalism will be researched prior to the actual invasion, the spears and swords should be upgraded. If by some reason Knights (by anybody on Bob) become available prior to the actual declaration of war, the plan has failed and war should NOT be declared.
Task Force – Diversion. This group will consist of 4-5 swords and two spears. It will start from Zarigoza and will march on Marlowa. This group is to be a sacrificial Diversion, drawing the defensive and offensive forces of ND south, to their death.
Group – Apocalypse. This group will be composed of 4 horsemen (named appropriately enough War, Petulance, Famine and Death). This will be a second diversion – attacking near the cities of Stonedina and Thordoba. They will first go and pillage the iron near Anagramaskus, then will attempt to take out targets of opportunity, primarily workers and settlers. The goal of this is to disrupt the enemies transportation network and to not let them consolidate their forces.
Strike Group – Anagramaskus. This group will consist of 8 swords and 4 spears. It will be just outside of their view at the start of hostilities, on the mountains as close to Anagramaskus as possible. It will march straight to its target along the mountains, only attacking targets of opportunity as will not delay it from accomplishing its primary objective. Once taken, all defensive units will fortify, and all uninjured offensive units will march south, joining will all remaining offensive units from Task Force – Diversion and either taking or destroying the Capitol of New Theben. Once taken, reinforcements will arrive, fortifying positions against a ND counterattack and any attack by GoW. Anablanca is the next target. At this point we decide – do we continue and take out ND, or let them live as they are. If we continue, we must next take their new capitol, Dar-El-Killam. Once taken, they are effectively over in this game and it is all just a cleanup operation.
In order to accomplish these goals, we need the following:
- 8 new swordsmen. We have 5 warriors to be upgraded, although only 3 are currently planned. Also, due to our policy of purchasing tech and our large military size compared to the support costs, we will not have the funds to upgrade more than 2. So, the cities of Madrid and Zaragoza will be hard pressed to make this. Madrid (once it grows) can produce one every 3 turns. Zaragoza every 5. That means it will take 12 turns including the two upgrades.
- 6 Spearmen. Although we currently have 4 that are just being used as watchers, we will need to defend our new cities.
- Settlers. Keeping Pamplona and the new “Hill City” as settler factories is a must. We must not forget that we must take over the southern lands ASAP.
- 2 or 3 Horseman for the Apocalypse.
- 1 worker. Vigo grows in 2 turns. If we switch to a worker now, it will be ready in 3 turns.
All these will mean that it is 20 turns until we have our forces built.
Prep work. Fast deployment of our original forces and of our replacements is a key. We need to take 4 workers NOW from current jobs and get them working on two Jungle roadways. First, a single worker (like the new Vigo worker) starts a road to Marlowa. We tell ND that we want them to build a road also so that we can trade. This will keep them from being concerned. Once done (only one jungle square needed) the worker goes back and connects to the new cities Pamplona is pumping out. Three current workers start from the new Hill City, and road North through the jungle. This will give us the fast movement we need to get our forces to be able to attack from the east.
Anticipated issues:
- Estimated time of attack – 30 turns. Lots can occur in that time frame. I did not work out an exact time frame and I was not really counting on much city growth.
- Attack will take 10-15 turns, a long time. Definitely not a surgical strike.
- Finances. We have about 200 in reserve now. We are only making 1 gpt now and we are at 100% taxes. We are giving away 50gp +/- this turn and 6 gpt to our enemy, ND for three techs. A necessary evil. Thus we will be in the red until a couple of new cities get built to offset our army costs. Combined with the fact that our cities are growing, making more revenue, and our military must grow, spending more, a very detailed analysis will need to follow to make sure we can do it. And this doesn’t even mention any unit upgrades.
- GoW, who can predict what these freaks will do.
- Production. We need to keep growing, so Pamplona and the new Hill City must be dedicated to growth. That leaves only Madrid and Zarigoza as viable production centers for our military. In estimating the time, I assumed Madrid would have a constant 10 shields per turn and Zarigoza a constant 5 for production.
- The ND cities will be rather corrupt until we can build a new capitol and the FP. I would suggest that when the FP becomes available, we start construction in Zarigoza and then move the Palace with a GL to somewhere in the north.
I think that if necessary, we can take both GoW and ND out, AS LONG AS THEY DON’T HAVE THERE UU YET. If either one starts in a GA prior to us castrating them, we will be hurting. Victorious, but hurting. Thoughts, analysis, changes, and most importantly, say if you are or are not in favor of this.
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Nuclear Winter
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I am for it
though IMHO this plan lack proper sea support, one or two galleys could drop soldiers behind enemy lines and we could also castrate any counterattack from the sea
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dejon
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I like this plan. I would add more defensive units to the assault, to fend off the inevitable counter strikes. Arabia is not ruled by simpletons, and have many resources at their disposal, so we must be prepared for a strong counter offensive, possible including Chinese mercenaries.
While I would like to stamp them out in one war, it is beyond the scope of our resources. So we should also have plans ready for handling post-war diplomacy with both Arabia and China.
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dejon
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quote:
Originally posted by History Guy
I think that the Warmongers could be won over if we signed an alliance with them for the attack. They desperately want land, and are afraid of the Demogypticans.
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The good thing about the Chinese is their predictability - they will play both sides against one another in a brewing conflict, negotiating deals until they decide which is in their best interest. They will try to position their forces in a way that could switch sides at any moment.
We have to decide if our offensive is truly to be a surprise or not. If yes, contacting the Chinese about it in any matter is out of the question. As a result, they will most likely side with the Chinese in the war. If no, we have some more flexibility at the cost of Arabia knowing about the impending war.
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CiverDan
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My only concern is that GoW or ND will get Chivalry in 30 turns.
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Togas
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California
Jun 2002
time: 21:27
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I have many concerns about this:
We cannot predict what GoW will do, and if they side against us, we lose. I do not believe that we are strong enough to take on both ND and GoW, as I believe GoW's current strategy is to build gallies and to be a seafaring invasion nation. Such a nation could easily swoop in and seize our iron, gems, ivory, silks, and spices, all of which next to the ocean.
If we break out Non-Agg with ND our diplomacy will suffer. Frankly, this is the least of our concerns as we can probably boast about our conquest publicly, and I'm sure that most of the other teams would be happy to see ND go, so long as we can get them on our side...
Therefore, if we want to seriously head this direction we need to start setting things up now:
We need to lock down Legoland's alliance or neutrality.
We need to get GoW to start scheming -- they need to take their own source of iron, not be dependent on ND for it. They need to free themselves from ND's control, etc. I'm willing to promise them anything to get them involved and willing to betray them in the end...
We need to promise Vox we will support them on "Bob" if they help us or side with us. Then let them fight it out with GoW when they arrive.
We can probably be assured of GS neutrality. They don't seem to do anything else.
However, if CiverDan is right and both nations get Chivalry in 30 turns, then it's off. We sit back, we prepare, we wait for ND and GoW to go to war and then stab ND in the back.
The military buildup will continue.
--Togas
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Thrumble
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It seems attacking ND is a win-win for us. Either our units win and we take control of their cities thus allowing us more units that have free support. Or we our units lose and we have less units to support.
Either way we increase our income per turn, however I would much prefer to have more cities to contribute more free unit support.
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OliverFA
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Leeds, UK
Sep 2002
time: 06:27
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quote:
Originally posted by GodKing
Strategic Overview – ND
- Despotism (pop rush)
- Week military compared to ours
- They do have offensive units
(although they are probably towards the north)
- Cities are centrally located around capitol
(low corruption)
- Cities are generally small.
- Good relationship with GoW
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Just a quick note. The last save says we ave average military respect ND, so our forces are not as superior as we would like them to be.
I don't agree with the attack unless we can be reasonably sure that GoW will side us. Otherwise is a suicide.
Last edited by OliverFA on 02-04-2003 at 18:18
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CiverDan
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AS long as Gow is getting iron from ND. At the very least they will remain neutral and not attack ND. There are only two ways around this. Either settle near the iron, which is not feasible in the time frame we are talking about and will delay the settling of better city city sites and distract our workers from more important tasks, or we ask GoW to stab ND in the back, and attack Dar-el-Killlam and Thoroba. This may work, but only if GoW doesn't think they will take too much of a rep hit and they feel that ND will not be able to get them back later. These type of negotiations can be very bad though. Right after ND is Lux began their war, Lux tried to get GoW to ally with them. We know what happened there...
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Thrumble
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quote:
Originally posted by CiverDan
Right after ND is Lux began their war, Lux tried to get GoW to ally with them. We know what happened there... |
Let us not forget that GoW claims to have tried to offer Lux several deals to fight NeuDemonia and Trip refused to follow through on any of them. I believe he even mentioned it in one of his diplomatic messages.
My thought is that we might be able to swing GoW on our side if we can offer them an Iron resource. Without that though, I have a hard time seeing them attacking their source of Iron. This is the most likely reason ND is providing it to them, to control them with the resource needed to build their UU.
There is the possibility that ND will withdraw the Iron resource as soon as the they get Chivalry to prevent GoW from building Riders.
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astrologix
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On Earth
Jun 2002
time: 06:27
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While the GodKing plan is good, in matter of tactics, I think that we should carefully consider the current and future situation before making a great error.
Currently we are the good guys. Our diplomacy is the better one, and for all, Gow are the bad guys.
If we execute the GodKing plan, and assuming that we win, we'll become the bad guys and we'll have a global alliance against us. If we lose, the other countries will not trust us anymore.
We are not strong enough to slaughter ND, and even if we build more units, ND will do it too, simply because they ARE close to have their UU, they will prepare a war too.
As i've already said in the "Military Strategy" thread, I would continue to build more units in order to remain strong, mostly stronger than ND. If we do so, ND will certainly attack GoW before us, and then we will have the oportunity to stab ND in the back, with an international alibi.
As a result we will have a factual alliance with GoW to fight against ND, we will control all the iron sources of ND (preventing GoW to get one), and probably we will establish good conditions to win this game.
Consequently I would say that I mostly agree with the GodKing's military tactics but not with his political views.
I recommend to continue building units in order TO BE PREPARED to backstab ND at any time, but I would not be the agressor. And I recommend to build more cities at the north, so we'll be able to place troops near the ND cities, without alarming ND, because we could do it secretly. If we don't have cities in this area, it well be more difficult to do so, because ND can place watchers on the mountains near Stonedina who can discover our manoeuvers.
While waiting this inavoidable moment (the ND attack against GoW), we'll continue to settle all our lands and become a strong economic country.
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MrWhereItsAt
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New Year's Resolution: 2005 is the year of Where It's At - come get some.
Nov 2001
time: 17:27
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Putting this poor Ambassador to ND in the hot seat, eh?
It is clear that through any civ game there are several watershed times that are decision points. This is the third one, when nations are developed and stronger than every before, and just before the second upgrade of military offensive units. We either strike now or wait until the next point, which is just before Gunpowder is available.
We need to sound GoW out about the idea. What exactly have they done to transgress diplomatic conventions? Anything legit or just actions like settling with Vox for their city without consulting everyone else? That contravenes nothing, I don't think. Anyway, if they are the more untrustworthy (somehow), then it would cause less harm overall if they attacked ND first and we came to their "aid". Hell, they might even like the fact they will be seen as even more erratic by everyone else. If we guarantee them enough benefit (an Iron supply for some time could be benefit enough), this may be attainable. BUT, as others have pointed out, if we don't have GoW, we have nothing, unless they don't take the war as an opportunity (ie they have an utter brain meltdown).
Thus, we must know whether we can rely on GoW. Offer them Iron and some proportion of ND's lands, and hope like hell. Otherwise we are doomed to fail.
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CiverDan
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We have to remember that we will have a very short window after Fuedalism to attack. If ND gets Chivalry, it wont work. This means upgrade as many swords as possible immediately after discovering Feudalism, then upgrade important spears (i.e. on cities vulnerable to any counteroffensive) about the time we declare.
I agree Gow will only help if they know we can give them iron in short order if they can't take ND's North source with an initial attack. I dont think we can connect that iron quick enough though. I don't want to waste a city location there. Is diverting enough workers to form a colony by then worth it?
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Nuclear Winter
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100% cahcne of getting GA when your UU kills enemy... yeah that si why we dunnot want war... and add to this a possible backstab by another nation ALSO IN IT`S GA!!! It is certain doom!
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02-04-2003 01:04
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