02-04-2003 18:43									#1
	U-M Affirmative Action case heard before Supremes Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

So the big case went before the SC yesterday.

A friend of mine who is now in the Kennedy School at Harvard went to see the proceedings yesterday. He is, not to put too fine a point on it, a legal and political savant, and something of an expert when it comes to AA; he did his thesis on the Bakke case.

His take on what went down--he thinks that Michigan will win the case, 5-4, possibly even 6-3. He went in thinking that UM would probably lose, but after seeing and hearing the Justices question the lawyers, he's pretty sure that UM is going to win this thing.

He said the Justices seemed particularly rough on Solicitor General Ted Olson, who was arguing on behalf of the Bush Administration against UM's admissions policies.

Ruling probably won't be back until June or July... you ought to be able to find transcripts online.

	02-04-2003 20:02									#2
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ugh. Affirmative Action

	02-04-2003 20:06									#3
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We'll see. SCOTUS has made wierd rulings of late, so anything is possible.

	02-04-2003 20:30									#4
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This is one issue where debates at Apolyton changed my mind.

I went into the debates pro-UM, but after hearing the arguments, I doubt that AA as practiced at UM can survive constitutional scrutiny. I'm surprised the see that the Supremes may be leaning the other way. It's rare that you find me sitting to their right. D*mned liberal Republican pinkos. ( )

I don't think the analysis presented as to educational AA can be stretched to workplace AA, but that debate has yet to be joined.

I'm looking forward to the SCOTUS's opinion this summer.

	02-04-2003 20:40									#5
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It's going to be real tight either way.

I think any policy that uses race as a factor is only going to breed that much more resentment. Proponents always point out that "until the day comes" where quality of education improves and institutional racism is non-existent, AA will be necessary.


But like Rehnquist said yesterday, ...."when does this come to an end?" I want to know too

	02-04-2003 20:40									#6
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affirmative action is good racism.

and something about saying that makes me cringe.

	02-04-2003 20:44									#7
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DetroitDave--what a great signature you have!

	02-04-2003 21:07									#8
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Guy: This site maybe of interest to you.

	02-04-2003 23:01									#9
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Arse. I thought this was a Motown thread.

	03-04-2003 00:21									#10
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Here I was thinking it was a site about AA...

Got this week off, I ought to fire up some FF.

Oh, and Dino--I'm getting a new computer, which will (eventually) be hooked up to the net, so sometime in the relatively near future we may finally be able to face off.

	03-04-2003 00:22									#11
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quote: Originally posted by DetroitDave But like Rehnquist said yesterday, ...."when does this come to an end?" I want to know too

Well, I don't think anyone can say when the racism and its results will ebb to an extent that AA becomes unnecessary.

However, I think it's fairly obvious that we're not there yet.

	03-04-2003 00:28									#12
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which amendment is it that guarentees equal rights? the 14th? well, from my point of view AA treads upon the rights of those who aren't fortunate enough to be born into a minority.

Jesse JackAss gave a speech yesterday in front of the lincoln memorial, all the more reason to oppose AA.

	03-04-2003 00:30									#13
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Oh, the Supreme court. That makes more sense.

	03-04-2003 01:48									#14
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quote: His take on what went down--he thinks that Michigan will win the case, 5-4, possibly even 6-3. He went in thinking that UM would probably lose, but after seeing and hearing the Justices question the lawyers, he's pretty sure that UM is going to win this thing.

Even if Michigan wins, the REAL important part is what procedures the majority opinion will say is valid, and which would go too far.

	03-04-2003 02:53									#15
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I didn't see the entire protest, but there were easily several hundred, if not thousand, protesting the case on Tuesday. The metro up to Capitol Hill was clogged.

The major org that I saw was something called "BAMN" or "By Any Means Necessary" which sounds a bit ominous IMHO. They were passing out protest signs like Halloween candy down by the court...

	03-04-2003 03:23									#16
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i dislike aa. i'm a minority, why don't i get it?

oh, right, cause i've "assimilated". well, what about those fobs who haven't "assimilated"? sucks to be them.

	03-04-2003 03:41									#17
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I am generally against AA, despite recognizing it's good intentions. Like modern feminism, it is something that is divisive for humanity and will continue to perpetuate an "us and them" mentality.
People should recieve compassion regardless of their race. I think we would be much better off if people stopped supporting AA and started supporting Socialism instead.

	03-04-2003 06:04									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Timexwatch The major org that I saw was something called "BAMN" or "By Any Means Necessary" which sounds a bit ominous IMHO. They were passing out protest signs like Halloween candy down by the court...

BAMN is definitely bad news. I support AA, but I hate those ****ers. They are basically an arm of a revolutionary socialist organization, and are generally very intolerant of the views of others. If you dare oppose AA, they call you a racist--horseshit like that.


Q Cubed--as I've said previously, if there is one thing about the UM policy that I would change, it would be to provide AA for Asians. It really doesn't make much sense to me why it is not provided.

	03-04-2003 06:16									#19
	Re: U-M Affirmative Action case heard before Supremes Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Guynemer A friend of mine who is now in the Kennedy School at Harvard

Wow! Where did he go for undergrad and what were his LSAT scores? I'm going to be applying for Law School next year, but I haven't taken my LSATS yet.

	03-04-2003 06:20									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer BAMN is definitely bad news. I support AA, but I hate those ****ers. They are basically an arm of a revolutionary socialist organization, and are generally very intolerant of the views of others. If you dare oppose AA, they call you a racist--horseshit like that. Q Cubed--as I've said previously, if there is one thing about the UM policy that I would change, it would be to provide AA for Asians. It really doesn't make much sense to me why it is not provided.

Are they that bad? Pretty much person that I saw had either a BAMN shirt or BAMN protest poster. I highly doubt that many people know who they represent. It sounds like an International ANSWER situation.

	03-04-2003 08:55									#21
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He did undergrad at U-M; no idea what his LSATs were, but I'd guess they were on the farcically high end. I'm not one for false modesty; I know I'm a fairly intelligent guy, book-learnin' wise. But around this kid, I always felt like... well... Dan Quayle. (Not that he showed off or anything... as smart as he is, he's even more nice than smart.)


Anyway, yeah, BAMN is very bad news. My fiancee used to be on the student government here at UM, she mixed it up with them many, many times. Their situation is quite similar to ANSWER; I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they are actually linked in a concrete way.

	03-04-2003 10:36									#22
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There could be more than two opinions. There probably will be actually.

	03-04-2003 10:43									#23
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Jaguar... I bet there will.

At least one concurrence, and at least two dissents.

	03-04-2003 19:43									#24
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Probably true; especially considering that there are actually two separate cases in this, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if there is a split, i.e. pro-UM undergrad, anti-UM law school, or vice versa.

	03-04-2003 19:50									#25
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How many total opinions did Bakke have?

	03-04-2003 19:51									#26
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You cant take too much from the questioning done by the supremes since it doesnt always match their final opinions. Sometimes they're just playing devils advocate.

	03-04-2003 20:12									#27
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...And sometimes they change their minds later.

	03-04-2003 23:04									#28
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc How many total opinions did Bakke have?

15