03-04-2003 23:23									#1
	Informational Poll - our stance with ND Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

This is informational only, as to what you think out stance with ND should be AT THIS TIME. I am setting a time of 3 days as teh save is moving fast and a decision should be made.

Option 1 - They are teh enemy, and should be destroyed before thay can polute our land any more.
(attack them ASAP, as long as they don't have their UU yet, with the Arabian Oysters plan or something similar)

Option 2 - They are evil, but we should be patient. (Build up our forces, and when they attack someone with their UU [50%/50% it will be us or GoW] we attack them)

Option 3 - com - by - ah, my friend.....
(I like them. They are my friend. Lets just kiss and be friends. We should devote ourselves towards colonizing our lands in a peacefull manor)

Option 4 - Squid
(Whatever the Great and Wise Togas decides is fine by me)

	04-04-2003 00:18									#2
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If ND is evil, they are only so in their own self-interest. Barring any disrepecting of our land claims, I would hope we would not enter into war until we have a vested interest in it (ie: we run out of land to expand into). Prior to that, we will only destabilize our continent, ruin the pact we have that is keeping Bob safe from foreign settlement, and invite a alliance against by both ND and GoW (don't forget ND is currently supplying GoW with iron; they are ND's b*tch now more than ours and could be pressured to step up).

I voted for patience and restraint.

However, ND's warming relations with GoW are a disturbing trend. Supplying Iron is one thing and an unsettling one at that, but GF claims that Port Isolation is to be disbanded out of respect for ND's territorial claims. When did those warmongers ever have respect for anyone except out of fear? We need to get that other Iron source so that we can serve as a viable alternative to ND and take some pressure off of GoW

	04-04-2003 00:34									#3
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quote: Originally posted by ruby_maser ....We need to get that other Iron source so that we can serve as a viable alternative to ND and take some pressure off of GoW

I agree

	04-04-2003 04:38									#4
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Option two. I have presented us as a country that prefers diplomacy and building, while keeping a strong military to be able to defend ourselves at any time.
If we would go to war, we risk our good relations with Lego, which I consider very worthy. When the time comes we can redecide. For now, I prefer building rather than war.

Aidun Cian the younger

	04-04-2003 11:33									#5
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I'm a peaceful man, and that's why I'm in favour of building up our army as much as posible to keep it as a disuasory force. I think Spain should not hesitate to attack ND or any other nation if needed, but cool mind and wise judgement is the best of our posssible stances right now.

They are evil, no doubt. But attacking them right now doesn't serve us to any purpose. We need to secure and settle all our land before, or at least a biggest part of it. And this includes keeping pace with the "friendly competition" for the lands on the north.

(Translated: option 2)

	04-04-2003 17:42									#6
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quote: Originally posted by ruby_maser However, ND's warming relations with GoW are a disturbing trend. Supplying Iron is one thing and an unsettling one at that, but GF claims that Port Isolation is to be disbanded out of respect for ND's territorial claims. When did those warmongers ever have respect for anyone except out of fear? We need to get that other Iron source so that we can serve as a viable alternative to ND and take some pressure off of GoW

I fully agree, I think the warmongers are working with ND because they have to get Iron from somewhere and the NeoDemons are their only source. If ND succeeds in domisticating the warmongers we are in for a very rough time of it and any opportunity to undermine the relationship between the two northern barbarians should be utilized in my opinion.

	06-04-2003 00:43									#7
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I've been reading over the Diplomatic PM's and chat sessions. Does anyone else get the feeling that ND is trying to get us to worry about a possible GoW and Vox Alliance against ND, with us as the following target?

ND thinks that GoW could've 'tricked' them into giving GoW Iron so that they could repel Vox's landing in the North. I think we have to wait and see if they renew the Iron agreement or not. We need to find out when and for how long this Iron agreement is for.

If they don't renew it, then ND's concern is genuine. If they DO renew it; we have trouble. It would be good to get Vox's opinion on the matter if ND does renew the Iron deal with GoW. We should also let Lego know if the deal is renewed also; it gives them time to consider building more troops to support the Pact we have with them in case a ND-GoW Alliance is realized.

	06-04-2003 04:51									#8
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I agree withn Bigfree, BUT, it takes a lot of turns to wait. In these yurns it is better to anticipate on a coming war agianst some allinace than to await it and THEn start building troops. The army has a high priority and we should keep a strong army. Deterrence is one of the most successful ways to prevenmt others to attack you.
[ooc]Take an example from the US[/ooc].

Aidun Cian the younger

	06-04-2003 22:25									#9
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I don't see any pressure on the Warmongers. I see that they are being assisted. I must say, I agree that we must find out whether the Arabs were tricked or not, but I also wish to point out that they are taming horses for riding in a style that would make them very swift...I hear that they are called...Ansar Warriors, warriors of the Prophet Mooo-hammad! If they can build these before the agreement runs out, they'll have our goose cooked. We'll have waited for nothing, and we shall be run down and destroyed before we can hit back effectively.

Cardinal Calamari
Concerned Squid Baron

	06-04-2003 23:26									#10
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When we are ready and have an ally, we should quickly embarrass them by building in the controversial area north of Toledo. It's indeed important for us to make sure ND doesn't seize these lands!

I believe we have an ancient non-settling agreement there, and if we press that issue, we can gain an excuse for WAR.

Last edited by ThePlagueRat on 06-04-2003 at 23:35

	06-04-2003 23:40									#11
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I suggest Toledo not building a worker first, but a settler, to found a lake city. After the current Horseman, Madrid could build two vet spearmans to defend that city, while the Horsemens and Bulgar could prevent ND settlers to come into that lands.

	07-04-2003 00:37									#12
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Aidun: I agree. We must be ready, and keeping a decent army is a priority, which doesn't have to mean that we are going to make the first move.

Astrologix: I agree with founding the lake city, but why don't build the settler in Zaragoza instead of Toledo?

	07-04-2003 00:58									#13
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quote: Originally posted by OliverFA Astrologix: I agree with founding the lake city, but why don't build the settler in Zaragoza instead of Toledo?

Go to the Map Room thread to have the answer...

I'm totally against building settlers in Zaragoza because this city is our second military factory.

	07-04-2003 01:04									#14
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and here is my response at the Map Room:

quote: I've revised the calculations. Toledo can pop a settler in aprox. 9 turns. Zaragoza would do it in 5 turns. But being Toledo closer to the definitive placement the city would be found more or less at the same turn. Whith that new information I change my mind and support the idea of Toledo building a settler and Zaragoza keeping the military production.

So I agree Toledo it's better than Zaragoza, and that the queue should be changed from worker to settler to continue to "friendly settlement competition" against ND.

	07-04-2003 03:35									#15
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quote: Originally posted by astrologix I suggest Toledo not building a worker first, but a settler, to found a lake city. After the current Horseman, Madrid could build two vet spearmans to defend that city, while the Horsemens and Bulgar could prevent ND settlers to come into that lands.

I think this plan is great, except for the spearmen... We have many spearmen already, but a very poor offensive army. I suggest changing that to two vet swordmen.

	07-04-2003 07:36									#16
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Marshal Astronicus is exactly right, being the great military mind he is.

I wholehearted support his plan.

Waaaaaaar!

Cardinal Calamari
Holy Warrior Squid Baron

	13-07-2003 21:11									#17
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bump - curious to see who has changed their mind

	14-07-2003 10:08									#18
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I am still "wait and see." If we ally with GoW, they will m,ake their move, one way or another in a few turns. We will not be changing our builds during this time nor will we bring units out of areas for defense. We are still planning a 100% defensive war.

Now if GoW signs the Alliance AND attacks ND AND takes a ND city, THEN we can be assured that they are not allied with ND and can at least be trusted for the duration og the war against ND.

Now if GoW signs the Alliance AND attacks us, well, we are screwed, but we didn't screw ourselves by signing the Alliance, GoW hurt their own rep doing that.

Same is true if GoW doesn't sign and attacks us in conjunction with ND.