04-04-2003 02:14									#1
	Rop Rape Help Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Hi There, I'm about to do the nastiest trick in Civ - the good ol' ROP Rape.
Basically in my current game, despite my best efforts i never managed to catch up the AI on tech, I'm now also behind in Military and population ect

So, I'm going to try and kill all the birds with a stone - a Repution blow in Style
I've traded all my economy in gpt for French tech which will enable me to get Hoover.

However, When I declare war on the French I expect to cause some damage.

Here's the Military Situation :-
The Military Geezer says France are harder than us, but they cant have much attacking firepower (they wont have tanks yet, or if they've just researched it they wont have any time to build any when i cut off thier Oil. What I do have plenty of is Artillary, I'm inexperienced with Combined Arms, But i suspect that a ROP Rape is a perfect time to use it?? I have a lot of spare cavalary, which I'm sure I'll make good use of on ridlined troops.

The Main question tho, is how can i cause the MOST Damage with such limited firepower, Capital Isolation(they are a demo)? , BURN thier capital, generally play havok with thier railways or just burn the nearby cities???

Any help much appreciated
Cheers
Matt

	04-04-2003 02:22									#2
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It depends. Do you think you could actually capture and hold a significant chunk of the French Empire?

If so, I would argue for capturing as many luxury supplies as you can. That will help with WW, and will of course hurt the French. If you are neighbors with the French, perhaps a portion of their empire would be productive for you (due to Palace/FP placement)? If so, that area is an obvious target, as you might get some use out of it.

If you don't think you have the strength for that type of thing, I would probably advocate razing the capitol and any other core cities you can grab, and cutting all luxuries & strategic resources. Aim to maximize damage and minimize your casualties. Explorers are nice, 20 (?) shield pillagers - far better than getting Cavalry killed.

-Arrian

	04-04-2003 02:40									#3
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Thanks for that, I dont think I could capture thier cities, and more importantly hold them, altho there is one little coastal town Which I'll take for it to flip back to them again

Sadly the French luxuries are spread out through thier empire. Thier Capital, on further inspection, while i HAVE To get rid of it (or capture it) at some point, I think I'll settle for isolaton at this point as I'd like thier 3 wonders they have in there.

I think I'll look into the Explorer's, could produce them in 1 turn in many cities.

And another final Question , If i do ROP RAPE does it cancel my other ROP's???

Cheers
Matt

	04-04-2003 02:51									#4
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No, but you will never be able to get any new RoPs once you've done the rape.

-Arrian

	04-04-2003 02:57									#5
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

That's ok , i didnt expect I would be able to do - I'll make them all in advance

	04-04-2003 04:12									#6
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Well well, The AI is a hell of a lot more smarter than I gave it credit for.

Here's me expecting i could round one by one doing the ROP Rape to each civ and they'd all stand by and watch. Whooopps.

The AI kicked my ass big time, I actually went for the russians first since they had a couple of stranded cities in 'my' area. My offensive went quite ok, any i actually found the immense power of Artillery - good stuff they are. The Main problem was that the next turn virtually the whole world (even those with ROP's) declared war on me, and Me vs Everyone was always going to be a quick road to defeat.

Oh well, never mind, Well done AI.

Cheers
Matt

	04-04-2003 04:45									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Rothy Oh well, never mind, Well done AI.

Now there's something I don't hear every day.

	04-04-2003 08:55									#8
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Well ya gotta hand it to them for not being as dumb as I expected. Just gotta learn and start over, It's great to be humiliatingly defeated once in a While!!

	04-04-2003 13:59									#9
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It is possible to get more RoPs after a RoP rape, because it is possible to fool the AI into thinking that what happened wasn't RoP violation.

If you have an RoP that has lasted 20 turns withouth being cancelled (or is in the last turn, where the deal shows up in your 'existing deals' section and this is your first chance to legally cancel it, you use the RoP to move all your relevant units into position, call up the leader, cancel the RoP, and then declare war. You do take the diplo hit for declaring war with troops in an opponents territory, but as long as your reputation wasn't too bad, you can still sign RoP deals with other civs.

To be fair, I don't think I've done this with PtW, only Civ 3 v1.29f. I only ever did it once, the time I discovered it, but I think it is a bit of an exploit. It might not even work under the latest patches on PtW.

	04-04-2003 14:48									#10
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quote: Originally posted by vulture To be fair, I don't think I've done this with PtW, only Civ 3 v1.29f. I only ever did it once, the time I discovered it, but I think it is a bit of an exploit. It might not even work under the latest patches on PtW.

Your last sentence is spot on. If you declare war while having units in enemy territory (or attack without declaring war first), you can expect to see the AI mentioning your RoP rape afterwards, even though you didn't actually have a RoP.

	05-04-2003 11:32									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Rothy The AI kicked my ass big time, I actually went for the russians first since they had a couple of stranded cities in 'my' area. My offensive went quite ok, any i actually found the immense power of Artillery - good stuff they are. The Main problem was that the next turn virtually the whole world (even those with ROP's) declared war on me, and Me vs Everyone was always going to be a quick road to defeat. Oh well, never mind, Well done AI. Cheers Matt

Well, I'm sorry your adventure didn't end up as you had hoped for. If you allow me to make some suggestions:

- you better watch your back with your neighbors, especially if you don't know how "popular" your enemy is. Doing a RoP Rape didn't help either...

- I don't usually go for "limited warfare" after the mid-medieval age (unless I have a specific objective like luxuries or resources). If I start a war after that period, I conquer or try and do as much damage as possible (in other words effectively wiping out that country from being a future threat ever again). Unless of course I am attacked unexpectedly, in that case I try and beat the enemy and do a limited counterattack. I would have rather waited a little until I was stronger and tried to get a military alliance and then attacked. Or at the least done it legit as vulture and theNiceOne mentioned.

better luck next time Rothy

	07-04-2003 08:00									#12
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If you try a RoP Rape, make sure you are ina strategic location. For example, you want to make sure you are not in the middle of several nations. If you are, you could be in the position Hitler was in, and well....it didn't serve him to well did it?

About the RoP Rape, it can actually be the fastest way to attack, but you will piss everyone else off. So, unless your civ is the God of The World at the time, you might not wanna do it.

-Ronald

	07-04-2003 14:27									#13
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quote: Originally posted by theNiceOne Your last sentence is spot on. If you declare war while having units in enemy territory (or attack without declaring war first), you can expect to see the AI mentioning your RoP rape afterwards, even though you didn't actually have a RoP.

Is there any difference between declaring a war and then attacking the enemy units/cities or just jump on the enemy without declaring a war? ....hm if yes, maybe this is why nobody likes me in my games....

	08-04-2003 01:14									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian No, but you will never be able to get any new RoPs once you've done the rape. -Arrian

Unless you're the AI? About 6 of the enemies just took turns to ROP-rape my civ. I didn't notice them going without ROPs themselves afterwards.

Is it just me, or is the PTW AI more aggressive than 1.29?

In the past, you could pay up to a threat, and they'd get off your back for a while. Now they demand an expensive tech, you pay, and they ROP-rape you two turns later. Avoiding war seems impossible in PTW.

	08-04-2003 01:25									#15
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Cort Haus,

Right, the AI does not suffer the diplomatic hits a human does. I think it would cripple the AI if it did.

PTW is slightly more aggressive, IMO. Slightly harder too. Hence my drop from Emperor back to Monarch. I could play and win Emp, but Monarch is more fun for me.

I just try and beat the AI to the punch.

-Arrian

	08-04-2003 01:56									#16
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quote: Originally posted by cumi Is there any difference between declaring a war and then attacking the enemy units/cities or just jump on the enemy without declaring a war? ....hm if yes, maybe this is why nobody likes me in my games....

Big difference. Unless your "declaration by jumping on the enemy without a declaration of war" invloves attacking an AI civ in neutral territory (at sea for instance), then by definition it means that you're moving ground forces into enemy territory and therefore "declaring" with troops in enemy territory. The rep hit from such a declaration seems to be milder than actually breaking a 20-turn RoP deal at the same time as the "sneak" attack, but make no mistake -- attacking (and thus forcing a declaration) while in territory is harmful to your rep. If you're not doing a true "RoP rape" then you'd probably be far better off formally declaring war before your units actually enter enemy territory.

Catt

	08-04-2003 02:27									#17
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This has never happened to me, but has me wondering: If a Civ I have a ROP with and units on their soil, declares war on ME because I declare war another Civ it has a MPP with, will I take the rep hit?