04-04-2003 21:51									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Demerzel Considering that Elton John managed to get over Eminem's homophobic prejudices and sang a duet with him, you sniping from the sidelines is just a total waste of space.

All that shows is that Elton John is an opportunistic shithead who will do anything for enough money. Keep in mind that with his lawsuit, he was in desperate need of cash. Any publicity is good publicity, after all.

	04-04-2003 22:06									#32
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I REALLY hate political correctness and I think one shouldn't take oneself and the world not too serious.
And even though I don't listen to Rap too much, I like Enimen.

	04-04-2003 23:17									#33
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Like him.

Led Zeppelin freakin raped a girl with a fish and I still listen to em. Didn't the lead singer move to Morrocco so he could marry multiple young girls? Don't understand the whole bad beliefs=bad artist premise.

	04-04-2003 23:49									#34
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quote: Originally posted by gsmoove23 Like him. Led Zeppelin freakin raped a girl with a fish and I still listen to em. Didn't the lead singer move to Morrocco so he could marry multiple young girls? Don't understand the whole bad beliefs=bad artist premise.

It actually depends on how the artist expresses his beliefs. If an artist chooses to make his repugnant beliefs known in his art, then criticizing the artwork is perfectly valid. But one shouldn't dismiss an artist's work wholesale if they happened to have been a ***** who made wonderful things.

A good example is Wagner, who was a racist, sexist, adulterous **** who later inspired Nazis, but damn it he wrote some of the most incredible music around. The only time where his noxious beliefs interfere with his art is in the sanctimonious religious drivel of Parsifal, and it still has incredible music.

	05-04-2003 00:19									#35
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Hey, Vesayen, don't you think it could possibly be you people snigger at?

	05-04-2003 00:23									#36
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Yep, you must be able to seperate the artist from the art.

I really am not a fan of rap or Enimen as a person.
BUT, he has done some good work which infers that I think he has some talent.

	05-04-2003 00:30									#37
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I'm not a fan of rap, either. But I think some of his stuff is pretty funny, for lack of better description.

He had a rough upbringing, and a lot of what he says is catharsis. Kind of like NWA and "**** the Police"

	05-04-2003 00:30									#38
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quote: All that shows is that Elton John is an opportunistic shithead who will do anything for enough money.

Elton John is a shithead? What an ignorant statement...

	05-04-2003 00:55									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: All that shows is that Elton John is an opportunistic shithead who will do anything for enough money. Elton John is a shithead? What an ignorant statement...

Oh stuff it. I have plenty of knowledge about Elton John and his willingness to compromise himself for the sake fo a buck. Just read his testimony from the lawsuit he was involved in and you'll see that I'm pretty on the ball. The commericialist claptrap of Aida sits as another fine example of his own Disneyfication into a charicature of his former self.

	05-04-2003 01:20									#40
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Boris, I understand the distinction but I don't agree with this...

quote: If an artist chooses to make his repugnant beliefs known in his art, then criticizing the artwork is perfectly valid.

If the work is sincere then I don't see criticizing on anything other then a moral or political level.

	05-04-2003 01:26									#41
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quote: Originally posted by gsmoove23 If the work is sincere then I don't see criticizing on anything other then a moral or political level.

That's what I was saying. If you mind it morally repugnant in its message, it's valid to criticize it on that basis.

	05-04-2003 04:11									#42
	Re: Im sorry if you like Eminem, but your not black and he isnt a gifted musician Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Vesayen Im sorry if you like eminem, but your not black(unless you are, in which case I rescind my comment)

I concede to you in the face of such a well-thought out argument.

	05-04-2003 04:18									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer Eminem is a waste of talent. He rhymes pretty good and he's good at the actual act of rapping (being on beat and having emotion and charisma and all that) but 90% of his songs are garbage... constant repeating of how he hates celebrities and how he's beong oppressed by protestors... He wasnt always like this though... in 1997, he dropped an album that was completely a serious, uplifting album... with song's like It's Okay, Never 2 Far (a hopeful song of riches), Searchin' (a love song for his ex-wife saying how he searched for someone like her for years), Maxine (a song about a sexually loose woman who gets AIDS), etc. he was a very socially conscious rapper. The album flopped and he attempted suicide... after failing in the suicide attempt, he said he didnt give a **** anymore and would let his 'id' take over thanks

Amen brotha.

Love Eminem's lesser known songs, but I hate the ones manufactured to be hits.

	05-04-2003 06:01									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Lorizael And what the **** does the color of skin have to do with anything? Grrr...

I have tanned skin ... but why are you asking me why it matters? Aren't there much larger tomes of knowledge here at 'poly?

	05-04-2003 06:51									#45
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Ok, I dont agree with what the post says but i think everyone here understood Vesayen when he said the Black comment.


What I think he is inferring is that Eminem acts black and tries to be black - but of course he's as white as a polar bear.

you will find however, that if you question Eminem on this issue he will get very annoyed by it as he has said many times before he's not trying to be black, it's just the way he is.

	05-04-2003 07:26									#46
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I don't listen to rap, and I don't know if Eminem is a good rapper or not. But, other rappers say that he is legitimate, so he must be.

I heard a quote from Chris Rock once, " Don't tell me this country ain't changing, the best rapper around right now is white, Eminem, and the best golfer is black."


Are youn saying, Vesayen, that Tiger Woods can't be the best golfer because he's black?

We all know that golf was pretty much dominated by rich, white men since the beginning.

Musically, I'll give you a polar opposite.

I used to, and still do listen to "Living Colour", a black hard rock band. Are you saying they can't be good because they are black, when hard rock and heavy metal bands are almost all white? Also, you seem to be saying that any black man that listens to heavy metal is being a pretender too.

I have a couple of black friends that would disagree with your statements made.

ACK!

	05-04-2003 07:31									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Rothy Ok, I dont agree with what the post says but i think everyone here understood Vesayen when he said the Black comment. What I think he is inferring is that Eminem acts black and tries to be black - but of course he's as white as a polar bear.

Uh, that's not what Vesayen was saying at all:

quote: Im sorry if you like eminem, but your[sic] not black(unless you are, in which case I rescind my comment)

The "you're not black" comment is clearly directed at the fans of Eminem, not Eminem himself. It is falsely saying that only white people would listen to Eminem, and then making the racist implication that only black people are qualified to judge what is and isn't good rap talent.