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Sir Ralph
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Long live teh Schwampel!
Dec 2001
time: 06:27
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To be edited by the leaders of the Scholia.
Status:
- Research at 60%, Feudalism in 8 turns (if the current rate is sustained).
- Luxuries at 10%
- 287 gold cash, -4/turn.
Urgent questions:
- Do we want to suspend research and stockpile gold for a while?
- Do we want to go ahead and upgrade enough warriors once we get our iron connected that we aren't weak compared with Vox?
- Where do we want to settle next?
- How many units and which do we want to relocate towards the "front".
Military:
- Warriors other than our main three pickets withdraw to Hurricane for possible upgrade.
- Any other orders from our generals?
- Settler moves 7-8-4.
Economy:
- Add the three workers who just finished our iron road to Hurricane. Boost luxury slider to 20%.
- Worker 8-7 from Sandstorm moves 8.
- Worker 4 from Tempest starts road.
- Worker in western desert starts irrigating.
- Worker by Cyclone moves 9-9 and starts irrigating.
- Worker on southern fur moves 8-8-8.
- Tempest works three flood plains and two hills (including the one we finish mining and roading this turn). Need to move a hill laborer to an irrigated plains next turn for three-turn growth.
- Sandstorm works two flood plains.
- Bolderberg and Cyclone swap tiles so Bolderberg is working the shared forest. This trades two food (this turn and next) for finishing its spearman in three turns total instead of four.
- Tornado switches to building a War Chariot.
- Move Tornado's new laborer off the forest. (We'll trade tiles with Cyclone next turn so our War Chariot's total build time is still three turns.)
Diplomacy:
Proposals to GoW and RP on Feudalism- please discuss.
Thread library:
- Standing orders for workers
Last edited by nbarclay on 05-04-2003 at 18:04
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DeepO
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supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:27
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Sunday, I would like to discuss things with the Legos too, regarding the possible deal with Feud.
Seeing that they are not in a republic yet (and will have some anarchy in between), we will be a lot faster on research then them, if we would go for it. However, we could also use that time to build reserves that could last a thousand years. If I can be honest (I will wrap it nicely, of course), I want to say to them that we haven't decided yet on how to proceed, and therefore want them to consider two proposals:
1. We give Feud + Knights, they give Theology + gold. Because of the difference in speed, the end of the deal should be more or less fixed, so we could offer Feud for the gold, in case we can exchange Knights for Theo later. Gold price to be discussed...
2. We slow down on Feud, and trade it for Theology, compensating the difference with gold on our side. knights will then be part of a future deal.
Some thoughts: we can't delay trade for too long, so we can't delay getting Feud long either. I would prefer if we would research it ourselves anyway, so at least get us over half the 1st beaker cost (more will be needed if we want to research it the same turn as whoever is also doing it).
DeepO
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DeepO
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supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:27
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For the details: Let's start from the assumption that we will offer Feud, they will enter the price as requested and accept, then next turn we accept. This means 1 turn delay for all teams, so no possible cheating, and no possible advantage for any of them (also no discussion because if somebody receives it first in a turn because they play first, the beaker cost would sink for all subsequent teams.)
Further, I wouldn't set our science level to maximum, we will be first anyway (by far). We don't want to delay it by much either, as the faster we can sell it, the bigger our relative advantage will get (the fewer others can save cash). 10 turns seems reasonable...
Only problem is when we are going to loan money to GoW, we need a bit more cash then. But they can't lend more then some 400 gold, because they have no means of paying it back. 400 gold would mean 50 gpt, and seeing that we are currently around 70 gpt and are doing a lot better economically as anyone else, I can't see us going for more. And they also need to pay us for the tech 
DeepO
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DeepO
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supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:27
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we would lose 170 gold, only to gain a possible 120 from others? Doesn't sound like a good deal to me. Let's keep us at 8 turns to feudalism, and don't make any of the proposed deals more difficult to get. We still don't know anything from other civs, maybe they don't like the deal we propose, and want something considerabluy less. If so, it wouldn't be good if we burned cash in the mean time...
As to not offering firm proposals to Lego: sorry, Nathan, I just saw your message, proposal has been sent before reading it. I thought it was fully discussed, though, and we're still in proposing stage, things can change, or be retracted.
DeepO
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nbarclay
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Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:27
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quote:
Originally posted by DeepO
we would lose 170 gold, only to gain a possible 120 from others? Doesn't sound like a good deal to me. Let's keep us at 8 turns to feudalism, and don't make any of the proposed deals more difficult to get. We still don't know anything from other civs, maybe they don't like the deal we propose, and want something considerabluy less. If so, it wouldn't be good if we burned cash in the mean time... |
Our ultimate cost to research Feudalism is the same whether we research it quickly or slowly. Researching faster, we burn through gold faster, but we also get our payments from other teams faster, so those two angles balance out in the long run. And if researching faster lets us get other teams to pay a higher percentage of our research costs, we come out clearly ahead. (Although your line about how much it costs us might be worth trying on other teams.  )
Nathan
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DeepO
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supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:27
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I only partly agree. The problem is that whenever feudalism is distributed in the world, a next race starts: the race towards chivalry. Again, we can easily be first to get it, selling it to the rest of the world. But we can't if we first need to save cash because our treasury is empty, and we want to rush some things. So those 170 gold can be seen as a loss, or at least a partial loss, it is the price we pay for making it more difficult for others to build decent reserves and infrastructure.
If we would want to save additional cash (on top of what we are going to receive from this deal), we should do it before others can start on chivalry.
Most likely, we get in a similar situation with the next tech, which we should be able to sell to everyone, as nobody can research as fast as us. If we can keep this up for 3 or 4 techs, we automatically push ourselves forwards to the point where some of the teams can't afford our price anymore, and gets behind in tech... wars will certainly play a part in that. By not doing it with chivalry, we lose the advantage we have, but with short term gains (more immediate gold).
DeepO
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nbarclay
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Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:27
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In the race for Chivalry, though, we'll be funded in large part by the proceeds of Feudalism, while our competitors will be slowed down by what they pay us. [Edit: And the more they pay us, the more they'll be slowed down.] If even one team pays us up front, we should have what we need for the aqueduct in Tempest. If not, we can suspend research for two turns before starting the race for Chivalry, and we should still be able to win by boosting our research to 80% and using our income to pay current expenses. (And if we win the race for the Pyramids, we'll enter our GA just as we start research again, which will make winning the race for Chivalry essentially trivial.) After we get Chivalry, we can decide how we want to balance research against rush buying.
Nathan
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04-04-2003 23:37
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