20-04-2003 17:15									#31
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Panag, I realize you said you probally won't read this, but are you implying that others in the chat room are advocating cheating? If so, I have to wonder if you've read the rules thread: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...086#post1739086

I haven't been in the chat room in about 10-12 days myself due to being busy, but I never heard anyone advocate cheating....spying yes...cheating no. Spying without cheating (though maybe shady) is not technically cheating. The difference is we agreed not to try to hack the save file (which would include abusing the bug) or into other teams private forums. Spying through other means (such as through public forums and chat rooms) is as far as I know acceptable.

	21-04-2003 00:14									#32
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Good response, F-P.

I stand next to you.

	21-04-2003 00:16									#33
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Panag:

how can you even claim that people chit-chat needlessly and consider cheating in the chat room, since YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN IN THE CHAT ROOM.

I am loggend on to the chat every morning and every night and never, not once, has anyone even considered cheating. And considering how consuls like MrWIA, Vondrack, etc. are usually in the chat room too, it is folly that they would accept such behavior.

And sorry to bust your bubbles, but YES, it IS worth the fuzz because I for one won't tolerate someone on this team who 1) implied it was good to cheat and 2) implied that other people on the team cheat always and so it is normal to do so.

You have offended not only myself but everyone else by implying that "plenty of us talk" in the chat. Since you have never bothered to be in it, it is even more groundless and more pathetic that you even use it as an excuse.

	21-04-2003 00:25									#34
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I think that he's talking about the general chat room, not the ISDG room, for I am in there a lot and have never heard anyone mention anything about cheating. Panag, AFAIK, you haven't even been in the ApolytonISDG chatroom,

And if you have heard mention of cheating on other boards and you feel that it's in relation to this game by other team's members, then it is your duty to inform us to this fact, provide logs and let the consuls bring any alligations to the UN.

As for cheating to win and having enough tallent to not lose, things do happen and yes, we just might lose. But I do not beleave that any of our good team members will decide to cheat if things do start going badly for us. We will go down fighting and then say, "good Job" to the victors. Then we will kick a** in the next game...

E_T

	21-04-2003 02:35									#35
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Panag needs a nice fat:



Just one guy's opinion. Cheating is WAY beyond not cool.

	21-04-2003 07:16									#36
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Panag - I feel compelled to wade in on this as well. You see, I took the pledge on behalf of the team.

So - please - if your words do not reflect what you meant to say - then has been already suggested, please re-phrase it or try to better explain what you meant.

It is not enough to simply dismiss your team-mates' comments and concerns and say you ill ignore this thread. This is a team - with all its benefits and responsibilities. And that includes, IMHO, being accountable to your team-mates.

Please read the team pledge - if you have not already done so - and, again, try to explain your position. No one is accusing you of cheating, but others have more eloquently expressed why even the hint or suggestion of it is not acceptable.

Please respond. Thanks. ... Beta.

	21-04-2003 18:22									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen Panag: how can you even claim that people chit-chat needlessly and consider cheating in the chat room, since YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN IN THE CHAT ROOM. I am loggend on to the chat every morning and every night and never, not once, has anyone even considered cheating. And considering how consuls like MrWIA, Vondrack, etc. are usually in the chat room too, it is folly that they would accept such behavior. And sorry to bust your bubbles, but YES, it IS worth the fuzz because I for one won't tolerate someone on this team who 1) implied it was good to cheat and 2) implied that other people on the team cheat always and so it is normal to do so. You have offended not only myself but everyone else by implying that "plenty of us talk" in the chat. Since you have never bothered to be in it, it is even more groundless and more pathetic that you even use it as an excuse.

hi ,

dont make a statement that you know is complete bullocks , .....

have a nice day

	21-04-2003 18:29									#38
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quote: Originally posted by BetaHound Panag - I feel compelled to wade in on this as well. You see, I took the pledge on behalf of the team. So - please - if your words do not reflect what you meant to say - then has been already suggested, please re-phrase it or try to better explain what you meant. It is not enough to simply dismiss your team-mates' comments and concerns and say you ill ignore this thread. This is a team - with all its benefits and responsibilities. And that includes, IMHO, being accountable to your team-mates. Please read the team pledge - if you have not already done so - and, again, try to explain your position. No one is accusing you of cheating, but others have more eloquently expressed why even the hint or suggestion of it is not acceptable. Please respond. Thanks. ... Beta.

hi ,

Beta , ( at last a person who uses some "sense" ) what can some people not understand about the word "imagine" > imagine it would have been doen on purpose > intel , then it would be great , .... , okay , the " ? " was forgotten , but it was not intended to speculate cheating in anyway , ....

if i really wanted to cheat , well i could provide you or any other team with info , to start with i see in the real world a player from an other team a couple times a week , one about ones a month and two are on the email list , ..... we all agreed not to speak about the teams we where in , about everything else yes , but not a single letter or word when it came to the demogame , .... not a single , some people should really stop to use some of the bullocks they are spreading ( no not you beta )

like i have pointed out above , its not even worth to answer , .... but then again there are some people who like to make from a mouse an elephant , ....

have a nice day

	21-04-2003 20:37									#39
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Who let him in here anyway?

	21-04-2003 20:58									#40
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quote: Originally posted by panag imagine it would have been doen on purpose > intel , then it would be great , .... , okay , the " ?

Sigh.

Let's just look at the offending statement, and see what we can derive from it, in order to get some closure on this issue/discussion.

panag, as written, your statement is completely ambiguous, not only in form but in what it conveys. I am not at all surprised to see all the backlash against you concerning this, because what you said can very easily be construed as supporting cheating (or, at least, taking a step in that direction). If you're not sure why what you said could be considered inflammatory, please take my word for it, and try to consider not only what you mean to say, but actually what you may end up conveying as well.

Everyone else, it is clear that panag is not advocating cheating. He was misinterpreted, and the communal backlash caught him off guard. Therefore I can completely understand why he does not feel like pursuing this discussion. If someone says that they do not advocate cheating, you basically have to take their word for it (unless they make it publicly obvious that they are cheating).

Back to the real issue: I think Aeson left because he did not want to have to deal with our crappy start. Any supporters for this idea?!?

Thought not...


Dominae

	21-04-2003 21:06									#41
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And I think Dom's post puts a 'period, full stop' on this discussion very nicely.

As to Aeson's reasons - I agree - I think once he saw the other team's start he wanted to change teams. j/k (really)

I think everyone involved has a tremendous amount of respect for the way Aeson handled this.

	21-04-2003 22:38									#42
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Nice spin control, Dominae. However, that's complete rubbish.

If it had been just one post, I'd accept what you say with complete agreement. However, he went on in another post to DEFEND what he had said, and further he ambiguously accused other people "in the chat room" of harboring the same thoughts, effectively throwing mud far and wide. He made a point in fact of saying that he wasn't alone in this behavior. He defended what we called unacceptable by claiming there were multiple people in his cause.

Therefore he KNEW that his actions were interpreted in this manner, and then went on to DEFEND them, rather than immediately clearing up the misconception. AFTER he then claimed it was all a big mistake, when he was stomped on even harder.

No, we interpreted his actually quite unambiguous statment corectly the first time. I respect your intents with this spin control, and I know what you meant, but call a duck a duck.


Edit: Sorry, I posted this before Beta's went up. I'll let it lie and not post on this again, but I won't remove it. Someone else with mod powers can if they feel the need.

	24-04-2003 20:09									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Fried-Psitalon Nice spin control, Dominae. However, that's complete rubbish. If it had been just one post, I'd accept what you say with complete agreement. However, he went on in another post to DEFEND what he had said, and further he ambiguously accused other people "in the chat room" of harboring the same thoughts, effectively throwing mud far and wide. He made a point in fact of saying that he wasn't alone in this behavior. He defended what we called unacceptable by claiming there were multiple people in his cause. Therefore he KNEW that his actions were interpreted in this manner, and then went on to DEFEND them, rather than immediately clearing up the misconception. AFTER he then claimed it was all a big mistake, when he was stomped on even harder. No, we interpreted his actually quite unambiguous statment corectly the first time. I respect your intents with this spin control, and I know what you meant, but call a duck a duck. Edit: Sorry, I posted this before Beta's went up. I'll let it lie and not post on this again, but I won't remove it. Someone else with mod powers can if they feel the need.

hi ,

what , now you cant stand up for what you have said , ...

whow , wait a min , where you in the chat , no , where you sending pm's , no , so , please , ....

bye

	24-04-2003 20:14									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Dominae Sigh. Let's just look at the offending statement, and see what we can derive from it, in order to get some closure on this issue/discussion. panag, as written, your statement is completely ambiguous, not only in form but in what it conveys. I am not at all surprised to see all the backlash against you concerning this, because what you said can very easily be construed as supporting cheating (or, at least, taking a step in that direction). If you're not sure why what you said could be considered inflammatory, please take my word for it, and try to consider not only what you mean to say, but actually what you may end up conveying as well. Everyone else, it is clear that panag is not advocating cheating. He was misinterpreted, and the communal backlash caught him off guard. Therefore I can completely understand why he does not feel like pursuing this discussion. If someone says that they do not advocate cheating, you basically have to take their word for it (unless they make it publicly obvious that they are cheating). Back to the real issue: I think Aeson left because he did not want to have to deal with our crappy start. Any supporters for this idea?!? Thought not... Dominae

hi ,

well at least some one with a clear view on things , ...

the biggest thing with this was the fact that some people started to send more or less "negative" emails about ten min after the post , then there where a couple chat sessions , pm's , etc , ... just a bunch of bullocks with a whole bunch of , you posted this and that , bla-bla-bla , .... combined with a whole bunch of things that where never said or written , ....

while the whole thing really is just a misunderstanding , .... but yeah , some people had nothing better to do , ....


crappy start , , ..... indeed , several people ( including panag ) find that some things could have done in an other way , but héy , we can go back and must try to make the best from it

what is done is done

could a mod close this thread

have a nice day