05-04-2003 02:20									#1
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Soon it will be time for the inquisition. Who shall be our grand inquisitor???? Soon Inigo Montoya shall be around.....

	05-04-2003 06:05									#2
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I didn't expect this!

It is however, a good idea. All of these silly heretics are going to get what's coming to them. The people must learn that they must repect and live by God and the church, and harming others with some of this nonsense that is propagating throughout Spain will not be tolerated.

Besides, my church is always so bloody cold. We could use a good witch burning to heat it up.

	05-04-2003 07:27									#3
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I propose that once we elect a Pope, it should be up to him to appoint the Chief Inquisitor, who will be answerable to the Pope and, by extension, the rest of the Church.

	05-04-2003 07:43									#4
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Thud,

Damn it, man...

Nooooooooooooobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!!!

	05-04-2003 20:25									#5
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Hmmm, we must make sure no crazy inquisitor will be ´´ operating´´ inside La academia, eh?
It is important to have freedom of free thinking in there.
We could make there a place for keeping the ones persecuted by their ideas safe....

	05-04-2003 22:24									#6
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Great squids of fire, Winterus!

Old friend, what's the point of having an Inquisition against heretics, anarchists, and madmen if they have a place to run and hide in whenever Cardinal Biggles pulls out his comfy chair?

Cardinal Calamari

	05-04-2003 23:34									#7
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Surely all heretics will be held fully accountable by Spain and her religious leader's. There should be not a place that heretics should feel safe espousing the views held against the one 'true faith' of Spain!!!

	06-04-2003 06:50									#8
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I would pretty much like to hear the opinion of Cardinal Aidun at this one...

	06-04-2003 07:34									#9
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When it is determined whether or not we will allow the Academia to be safe ground for heretics, we should also decide if it wouldn't be wise to do away with any statute of limitations on these types of crimes and ban the concept of grandfathering statements made prior to the Inquisition.

Then it will be open season on all previous posts as well. Get out your marshmallows...

	06-04-2003 07:41									#10
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We should have the Inquisition investigate statements made prior to the establishment of the Church, but ot any further back. It is not their fault if someone is misguided due to the absence of the Word.

	06-04-2003 08:22									#11
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Eta Tamali starts to hum a little ditiy that his Father taught him. He might even use this for a possible sond about the Inquisition...


Letus Eta Tamali

	06-04-2003 09:51									#12
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We must have all sorts of different punishments for their appropriate crimes. As stated in the Wholly Testament of Espana:

The Second Book of Squidicus, Twelfth Chapter, Verses One through Five, I mean Three:

1. Licking a frozen rod of steel for those with hot tongues of dissent.

2. Burning at the stake for those whose cold hearts are guilty of heresy - and to prepare their bodies for the infernal heat of hell.

3. Stretching on the rack for those whose confessions are somewhat "short" of the truth.

(My father is a retired minister so this brings back all the religious jargon of my childhood )

	06-04-2003 19:05									#13
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Dios Mio!

If we are to remain the flower of all of Bob, we must keep the intellectual juices flowing. An Inquisition will only stifle the greatest Spanish talents! There is no excuse for not following El Rey Catolico, Don Togas, but one can maintain a healthy mind and yet still obey El Magnificente.

Winterius, where is this academia of which you speak? I fear I may have to avail myself of its protective cloisters in the near future.

	06-04-2003 22:26									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Nuclear Winter I would pretty much like to hear the opinion of Cardinal Aidun at this one...

I have been busy with preaching last days. It takes a lot of time so that's the reason I could not attend until today.

About the Inquisition:
The almighty God is a God who loves us. Our God has, together with his son Jesus Christ, our Lord, taught us to forgive and to have patience with our brothers. Our God is a God who wants to guide us to live a good life.

We should take an example to the almighty God and the Lord: we should guide the christians and teach them how to live and what is right and what is wrong.

Guide rather than punish.
Punishment should only be used when the person thet sinned can not be convinced by any other means.
It is not wrong to discuss thoughts ans such should keep happening at la Academia, but if people sin, they should be taught that what they do is wrong and if they keep doing it punishment will follow sooner or later.

It is ridiculous to simply crusify a person for every sin. If our God would do so, noone of us would still be alive .

Casdinal Aidun Cian the older

	06-04-2003 22:38									#15
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Hey, everyone! Let's fry Aidun!

Oh...sorry...

Anyway, we must have a bit of an Inquisition, to flush out the non-Believers. Spain is a Catholic country. We can't have Polytheists roaming in our sacred borders! We must convert them...and nothing clears the head so well to conversion than a death sentence, eh, what?

All I'm saying is...give Holy War a chance. You see, the Devil is strong in the northern borderlands, in the woods. The demons, Azal, Azmidaeus, they all have a free hand there. In the deserts they live, under the sand. My grandfather, the desert father St. Hernan de Calamari, was exiled to the desert, and there converted, shown visions in the desert. He fought the demons. Can we?

It is known that exorcism works. Let's use it. We need to.

Perhaps you philosophers can dissent here, but remember, Spain is the Church, and the Church is the Bride of Christ. We cannot fill Spain with reckless pagans and heretics. Perhaps bonfires may not be needed, but they must be converted. By hook, or by papal crook...

Cardinal Calamari

	06-04-2003 23:06									#16
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OOC:

The inquisition was historically not intended for converting or prosecuting pagans. i.e. occultists were not part of the Christian faith and therefore not the responibility of the inquisition.
It's dedicated task was to prosecute and punish those Christians who did not submit to the chuch's authority. Those were called heretics, and they had different rituals, interpretations of the Bible, and preached in other languages than Latin, etc. After some time, though... the inquisition got involved into certain other tasks, such as assisting local authorities in witch-hunting and stuff. It got kinda out of hand I guess.

Last edited by ThePlagueRat on 07-04-2003 at 04:00

	06-04-2003 23:39									#17
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quote: Originally posted by History Guy Anyway, we must have a bit of an Inquisition, to flush out the non-Believers. Spain is a Catholic country. We can't have Polytheists roaming in our sacred borders! We must convert them...and nothing clears the head so well to conversion than a death sentence, eh, what? Perhaps you philosophers can dissent here, but remember, Spain is the Church, and the Church is the Bride of Christ. We cannot fill Spain with reckless pagans and heretics. Perhaps bonfires may not be needed, but they must be converted. By hook, or by papal crook...

Simply crusifying any pagan or heretic is not the just way. These are very bad sins indeed, but we should still have patience with the people who commit these sins. Our first task is to try to convince them and teach them that waht they do is wrong.
If they stick to these thoughts, we can first deny these people the holy sacraments to show them we are serious. We can eventually excommunicate them if they keep sinning. Death is no option. The almighty God has given us our life; what right do we have to judge if it should be ended or not if it is not us who grant life to people. (see my sig why I oppose the death penalty)

quote: All I'm saying is...give Holy War a chance. You see, the Devil is strong in the northern borderlands, in the woods. The demons, Azal, Azmidaeus, they all have a free hand there. In the deserts they live, under the sand. My grandfather, the desert father St. Hernan de Calamari, was exiled to the desert, and there converted, shown visions in the desert. He fought the demons. Can we?

It is unwise to simply start a Holy War. We should rather convert pagans in a peaceful way than by the sword. Offence causes defence. If we intend to spread our religion in an offensive way, that will only cause the pagans to defend their own religion and the resul will be but little or no conversions.

Cardinal Aidun Cian the older

	07-04-2003 07:25									#18
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[ooc] Aidun! This is still the BCs! Nobody is against the death penalty! [/ooc]

Cardinal Cian, I do not believe that we should kill heretics outright at all. However, what do we do with heretics who flaunt the sacraments, ignore excommunication, and teach foul heresies from within the church? Can these people be tolerated if they persist? If so...the Church will collapse from within. Decadence and sin will take hold of Spain forever. Is this your ideal utopia? I am not for death as the first resort, but for the last resort. How else can we protect the Church, protect our youth, and protect Spain itself?!

I meant Holy War in spiritual terms. We must fight the Devil, for he is more powerful than any prince of this earth, for he is the Prince of this earth! It is he who is behind heresy and paganism. Conversion is the great tool to defeat him, yes...but his forces are strong. The Arabs worship him in their own religion, and they will force it on us in their fatwahs. We must be ready to take up the sword for Christendom.

Cardinal Calamari

	07-04-2003 16:22									#19
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[ooc] At least some are against corporal punishment. [/ooc]

When I was a navigator-student at La Academia I was caned for bad behaviour.
Three red lashes on the back, and they poured salt into the wounds.

	07-04-2003 22:23									#20
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Would the Inquisition been incepted, I would like that the Church knows that a strong arm directed by an iced mind will be needed for researching, investigating, questionning, receiving confessions and bringing before the Inquisitorial Court all heresiarcs, their families, theirs friends, their vassals and their servants; and that nobody in Spain can display more credential that the undersigned.

Christofo de Torquemada
Senechal

	07-04-2003 22:52									#21
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quote: Originally posted by History Guy [ooc] Aidun! This is still the BCs! Nobody is against the death penalty! [/ooc]

[ooc]Well, the church might be. History Guy, time is relative. The age we are now in, the medieval age, is more important than the time. What the hell are we talking about : christianity; according to the time it takes still 775 years before he will be born. I agree that in the medieval day's the church was in favor of death penalty on heretics, but that does not deny me to be against it.[/ooc]

quote: Cardinal Cian, I do not believe that we should kill heretics outright at all. However, what do we do with heretics who flaunt the sacraments, ignore excommunication, and teach foul heresies from within the church? Can these people be tolerated if they persist? If so...the Church will collapse from within. Decadence and sin will take hold of Spain forever. Is this your ideal utopia? I am not for death as the first resort, but for the last resort. How else can we protect the Church, protect our youth, and protect Spain itself?!

I don't believe the church will collapse, but I do believe in the everlasting patience of the almighty God and the lessons the Lord taught us in Matthew 18 verses 15-17, 21 and 22.
Even in Matthew 18 verses 15-17 is not stated that the death penalty should be used as the punishment for heretics and pagans.
This is not an utopia, it is the word of the Lord and the word of the Lord is not a utopia Cardinal Calamari.

Cardinal Aidun Cian the older

	08-04-2003 04:41									#22
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Do you agree that St. Paul spoke the word of God? What about the Prophet Moses? Does Jesus ever condemn the death penalty outright?

The answers should be "Of course", "Yes", and "Well...uhhh...not reeeeeeally", respectively.

Take a look at Exodus. Look at the Commandments, and the verses that follow. Punishments ordained by God on Mount Sinai. And look at the Book of Romans, Chapter 1. God ordains this punishment to be used at certain times.

By the way, the literal meaning of utopia is an imaginary ideal society that is, in its own way, so ludicrous that it could not in any form exist. I certainly doubt that Christ's Kingdom is utopian in any form, I agree with you there.

Senor Torquemada...you aren't a Cardinal!

Cardinal Calamari

	08-04-2003 04:54									#23
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I think we should burn anyone who disagrees with this statement:

quote: I think we should burn anyone who disagrees with this statement

Anyone care to disagree?

	08-04-2003 05:04									#24
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I'd agree there, old chap.

	08-04-2003 12:43									#25
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ooc: No reason why Aidun can't be a few thousand years ahead of his time. All we have to do is make sur enobody else pays attention until we get to the stage where we can get rid of the DP. /ooc

	08-04-2003 18:59									#26
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quote: Originally posted by History Guy Senor Torquemada...you aren't a Cardinal! Cardinal Calamari

Eminence,

I would not like you to worry; I have no desire to don the scarlet, my prefered color is rather the deepest black, as you know.

But the punishment of heretics requires a process of technicalities that priests and cardinals are not trained to fully mastered; I therefore condescended to offer my services to the Church only in that respect.

Of course, if the Cardinals intend to do the job in person, it is with the greatest interest that I will ... watch.


Christofo de Torquemada
Senechal

	09-04-2003 01:58									#27
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Torquemada, when (if) a Pontiff is elected, we may then vote on an Inquisition to cleanse the country of heresy.

If that occurs...we will most assuredly assign you the duty of chief torturer.

I can just imagine you now...preparing the wrack...singing cheerfully to the poor, screaming heretic on the wrack..."Getting to know you...getting to know all about you!"

Charming thought.

Cardinal Calamari

	09-04-2003 22:37									#28
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Eminence,

If I am singing cheerfully, it is because I am helping, in the very limited extent of my talents, to save a soul otherwise lost for the eternity. Nothing would make me more happy than helping to save yours.

Christofo de Torquemada
Senechal

	10-04-2003 06:58									#29
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Have I offended you, Noble Watcher, that you must say such things to me? What have I done against you?

[ooc] Why does it seem like everyone in this game is intent in turning me off to it? [/ooc]

I hope it is nothing serious, for I seek enmity with no one. Indeed, open your door for my delivery cart. I give you as a present some fresh beef steaks, ready to be cooked.

Cardinal Calamari

	14-04-2003 17:07									#30
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Enough already *cough* *cough* we MUST have a safe haven for thinkers. Thinkers not doers well noted. In the Academia free speach MUST be protected.
The Inquisition should have no *cough* *cough* power there.

Whether it is right to kill or not is another question altogether, but one thing is sure: to kill a heretic or pagan for being a heretic or pagan is folly.
Hear my *cough* *cough* argument. Is it not so that every pagan that dies goes to hell? Is it not also said by the Lord himself that we should go forth and make all people his disciples?
By killing the pagans *cough* we send them to hell when they could possibly, in time, have been converted to serve the Lord! Thus the killing of pagans for God must be a contradiction in terms.
I am so old that I remember when we worshipped the spirits, then the multitude of gods. Yet there was hope for all us.
I am the firmest believer in our faith, not because I was forced to serve it but because I took my time, studied it and saw that it was indeed the truth.

Tolerance is what we must lea*cough* learn, or it will teach us a truly painful lesson. This inquisition should be directed at the church itself, not its members. If a man sins then let the church ostracize him until he repents.
It is abuse of power that the inquisition should be a guardian agains*cough**cough* *collapses*