Apolyton Archive  |  Preserved copy of the Apolyton Civilization Site and its forums as they stood in September 2005. Read-only; nothing here can be posted to or replied to.  |  Forum index |  About this archive |  The 1998–2001 UBB forums
Today on Apolyton WARDELL INTERVIEW PROMO A.C.S. HISTORY CHAPTER 4 GET CIV4 /w FREE PLUS! A.C.S. PHOTO GALLERY GET A.O.M. V1.1
Apolyton Civilization Forums
main| civ2| civ3| civ4| smac| ctp2| ron| moo3| galciv| galciv2| alt| about|
ApolytonPLUS | register | search | faq | new posts | pm (-/-) | upload | members
hall of fame new! | civgroups | civgroups news | interviews | the column | radio | chat | directory | news | store | PLUS
Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Miscellaneous > Archive > Off-Topic-Archive > Whatever happened to the "Field Marshal"?
Show a Printable Version | Email This Page to Someone! | Receive updates to this thread | Report this to Apolyton news!

bottom of page
  
Author
Thread    < Last Thread     Next Thread > Post New Thread     Post A Reply
Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:27
  Old Post 05-04-2003 04:55
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#1 Report this post to a moderator
Whatever happened to the &quot;Field Marshal&quot;? Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Well? In WW2, I recall many Field Marshalls... but I don't recall the Allies using the rank. Why isn't the rank used any more?

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:27
  Old Post 05-04-2003 05:01
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#2 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

The British had Field Marshalls (Monty was one), and the French and Russian had Marshalls (Petain, Zhukov) too. Interestingly, the Japanese ddin;t have Marshalls.

I guess the Term is seen as too aristocratic and undemocratic. Also, perhaps no military leaders rise to the level of a Marshall, in terms of what kind of commands they have.

Note, the Chinese and NK still have Marshalls.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:27
  Old Post 05-04-2003 05:01
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#3 Report this post to a moderator
Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

As far as I know the U.S. never used the title Field Marshall. The Germans did and I believe Monty was a Field Marshall before they upped his rank to General but I can't recall hearing anyone else with that title.

They also have done away with the five star General's rank and now the want to be Eisenhowers must content themselves with four stars.

Chemical Ollie is offline Chemical Ollie
Prince
Bored of this board
Jan 2002
time: 06:27
  Old Post 05-04-2003 05:08
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#4 Report this post to a moderator
Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

The last Swedish Field Marshal I remember was Magnus Stenbock. He died in a prison in Denmark in the mid 1700's. The danes should ask before they ask things...

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:27
  Old Post 05-04-2003 05:49
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#5 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton

The Five-Star Ranks
During World War II, the need was perceived for a General and Fleet Officer rank above that of General and Admiral, primarily to provide a level of parity with the British and German "Field Marshal" and "Admiral of the Fleet". Congress created the Army rank of "General of the Army" and the Navy rank of "Fleet Admiral". The use of five-star ranks is restricted to war-time and the last promotions to the this level were as a result of World War II service. There are no longer any surviving Generals of the Army or Fleet Admirals (the last to die was Omar Bradley). The Army recipients were George C. Marshall, Douglas MacArthur, Dwight D. Eisenhower, Henry H. Arnold (re-designated General of the Air Force on May 7, 1949) and Omar N. Bradley. The Navy recipients were Chester W. Nimitz, William D. Leahy, Ernest J. King and William F. Halsey.

Note:
The grade of General of the Armies of the United States is associated with two officers in our history, George Washington and John J. Pershing, although only General Pershing actually held it.

After Washington's death, an Act of May 14, 1800, specifically authorized President Adams to suspend any further appointment to the office of General of the Armies of the United States, "having reference to economy and the good of the service." Although the office was not expressly referred to in any of the actions taken to reduce or disband forces that had been raised in contemplation of war with France, it ceased when it was not mentioned in the Act of March 16, 1802, which determined the peacetime military establishment.

Congress enacted legislation authorizing the grade of General of the Army on July 25, 1866, and on that date the new grade was conferred on Lieutenant General Ulysses S. Grant. The grade was recognized and continued in various acts until the Act of July 15, 1870, which contained the requirement that "the offices of general and lieutenant general shall continue until a vacancy shall exist in the same, and no longer, and when such vacancy shall occur in either of said offices shall become inoperative, and shall, by virtue of this act, from thence forward be held to be repealed."

William T. Sherman, Grant's successor as Commanding General of the Army, was appointed as General of the Army on March 4, 1869, and upon his retirement in February 1884 was placed on the retired list as General of the Army. Under the provisions of the Act of March 3, 1885, authorizing the appointment of a "general of the Army on the retired list," this grade was also conferred on General Grant shortly before his death on July 23, 1885. The title ceased to exist as a grade of military rank at Sherman's death on February 14, 1891.

Sherman's successor was Lieutenant General Philip H. Sheridan, who could not be promoted to General of the Army because of the 1870 law. Congress, however, enacted legislation on June 1, 1888, shortly before Sheridan's death, that discontinued the grade of lieutenant general and merged it with that of General of the Army. The grade of General of the Army was conferred on Sheridan and was discontinued when he died, while still on active duty on August 5, 1888.

War Department General Orders No. 75, September 5, 1866, prescribed that the insignia for the newly authorized General of the Army grade would be four stars. General Grant wore this insignia, as did General Sherman until War Department General Orders No. 92, October 26, 1872, changed the insignia to two silver stars with the arms of the United States in gold between them. General Sherman, and later General Sheridan, wore the new insignia.

Congress revived the grade of General of the Armies of the United States by Public Law 45, approved September 3, 1919, to honor General John J. Pershing for his wartime service. He retired with that rank on September 13, 1924, and held it until his death on July 15, 1948. No other officer held this specific title until 1976, when President Ford posthumously appointed George Washington General of the Armies of the United States and specified that he would rank first among all officers of the Army, past and present.

When General Pershing was appointed General of the Armies, he continued to wear the four stars that he, as well as Generals Tasker H. Bliss and Peyton C. March, had adopted under the provisions of then current uniform regulations, which permitted them to prescribe the insignia denoting their grade. Army Regulations 600-35, Personnel: The Prescribed Uniform, October 12, 1921, and all subsequent editions during General Pershing's lifetime, made no mention of insignia for General of the Armies but prescribed that generals would wear four stars. General Pershing at no time wore more than four stars.

Following the establishment of the General of the Army grade on December 14, 1944, Army Regulations 600-35 were changed to prescribe that Generals of the Army would wear five stars. Although General Pershing continued to wear only four, he remained preeminent among all Army personnel, by virtue of Congressional action and Army Regulations governing rank and precedence, until his death on July 15, 1948.

http://www.amvets-ny.org/reference/...ignia_army.html

Dr Strangelove is offline Dr Strangelove
King
USA
Jan 1970
time: 00:27
  Old Post 05-04-2003 09:13
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#6 Report this post to a moderator
Enter the AD-FREE zone

The term "field marshall" was first introduced by Napoleon I believe, and was used as a special reward to his best field commanders. Field Marshals received choice compensations and fiefdoms. Napoleon often used a somewhat unique command structure. While each division and corps had its own commanding general during battle Napoleon would often have a collection of his best generals with him at his command post. When he became inspired to devise a plan of attack he would select one of his general staff, explain his plan and then commission the man to gather the needed forces and lead them into battle, temporarily usurping the position of the units' usual commanders during the attack.

Due to the inherently aristocratic nature of the position of the field marshal the term was never adopted by the US military. European nations on the other hand ate it up long after Napoleon's death.

Six Thousand Year Old Man is offline Six Thousand Year Old Man
King
Ad Rock
Aug 2000
time: 00:27
  Old Post 05-04-2003 09:36
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#7 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I thought Schwartzkopf was made a 5-star on his retirement?

Jaguar is offline Jaguar
King
Montgomery County, MD
Apr 2000
time: 00:27
  Old Post 05-04-2003 09:36
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#8 Report this post to a moderator
Remove this text

BTW, is FMK still around?

Six Thousand Year Old Man is offline Six Thousand Year Old Man
King
Ad Rock
Aug 2000
time: 00:27
  Old Post 05-04-2003 09:38
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#9 Report this post to a moderator
Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote:
Originally posted by Jaguar Warrior
BTW, is FMK still around?


If you mean Field Marshal Klesh, he mysteriously dropped out of Civ life right at the time the RF succession game was about to start.

Seeker is offline Seeker
Emperor
London Ontario
Jan 1970
time: 00:27
  Old Post 05-04-2003 13:13 Visit Seeker's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#10 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Yeah, noticed that the Germans and French seemed in love with having 'Field Marshals'...

In Europa Universalis some of your highest commanders in the medieval age have the rank "Field Chief Judge", which was a real rank, maybe there is a relationship?

I think it also has a lot to do with Republic-ism. Most other Republics don't have Field Marshals either, I think because they don't like creating military ranks of such high status, independence, and power.

I don't think any republic will stay a republic too much longer if there is a squad of jack-booted Field Marshals with tons of influence hanging around in positions of power....

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:27
  Old Post 05-04-2003 18:29
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#11 Report this post to a moderator
Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Wow, thanks for the info guys!

I luv you guys

Sirotnikov is offline Sirotnikov
King
<--- Yes, It's a "kitty" in a boot.
Feb 2000
time: 07:27
  Old Post 06-04-2003 04:30
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#12 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton

can someone explain in words the difference between the different kinds of ranks?

what's the difference between a general officer and a field grade officer and a company grade officer and warrant officers and non-comissioned officers?

Sirotnikov is offline Sirotnikov
King
<--- Yes, It's a "kitty" in a boot.
Feb 2000
time: 07:27
  Old Post 07-04-2003 04:36
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#13 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

bump

The Andy-Man is offline The Andy-Man
Prince
Tory Party of 'Poly
Jul 2001
time: 05:27
  Old Post 07-04-2003 04:41
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#14 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton

quote:
Originally posted by Sirotnikov
can someone explain in words the difference between the different kinds of ranks?

what's the difference between a general officer and a field grade officer and a company grade officer and warrant officers and non-comissioned officers?


i don't know, but i would guess it has to do with what is under their control, like a captain has a battalion or regiment, a general controls an army or regiments and a field marshall controlls the entire area of operqations.


though i just made that all up and am most likley wrong.

DAVOUT is offline DAVOUT
King
AUERSTADT
Jun 2002
time: 05:27
  Old Post 07-04-2003 05:04
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#15 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Marshal is not a rank, it is an honour, like a medal. It can only be granted in theory to generals who have commanded in chief on a theater.

DAVOUT is offline DAVOUT
King
AUERSTADT
Jun 2002
time: 05:27
  Old Post 07-04-2003 05:20
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#16 Report this post to a moderator
Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote:
Originally posted by Sirotnikov
can someone explain in words the difference between the different kinds of ranks?

what's the difference between a general officer and a field grade officer and a company grade officer and warrant officers and non-comissioned officers?


Sub-Lieutenant, Lieutenant, Captain (Company), Major (Batallion), Lieutenant-Colonel, Colonel (Regiment) are officers.
Sergeant, Quarter-master Sergeant, Master-sergeant are non-commissionned officers.
Generals command brigades, divisions, corps, armies.

Lonestar is offline Lonestar
Prince
AECCP Dark Lord of the Sith
Aug 2000
time: 00:27
  Old Post 07-04-2003 05:27 Visit Lonestar's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#17 Report this post to a moderator
Tired of ads?

The bigger question is, whatever happened to Grand Admiral?

Dr Strangelove is offline Dr Strangelove
King
USA
Jan 1970
time: 00:27
  Old Post 07-04-2003 06:15
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#18 Report this post to a moderator
Remove this text

quote:
Originally posted by Sirotnikov
can someone explain in words the difference between the different kinds of ranks?

what's the difference between a general officer and a field grade officer and a company grade officer and warrant officers and non-comissioned officers?


Well, general officers are just what it says- rank bridagier general or above. There is also the term "flag rank" which refers to everything from Colonel and above. They were permitted to have their own standard bearer and flag. In Napoleon's day regiments were the only real permanent militery formations and were usually given their own regimental colors.

Field officers include everything from second lieutenants to lieutenant colonels. Like their name implies, when their units are in the field so are they.

Non-commisioned officers are corporals and sergeants. They're basically enlisted men who have the experience and time in grade to have advanced in rank. In the old days officers were considered to be "commissioned", serving voluntarily at the pleasure of their superiors. Unlike enlisted men they were permitted to resign when they wanted to. The term harks back to the days when only aristocrats and gentlemen could become officers, and as such were entitled to somewhat priviledged treatment. Non-commissioned officers obviously did not come from the same strata of society, and did not recieve the same priviledges.

Warrant officers are pretty rare these days. I think that they are sort of inbetween commissioned and non-commissioned ranks, generally being enlisted men serving in a capacity as a lieutenant, but not with the same priviledges and pay.

Bearcat is offline Bearcat
King
Oregonia
Dec 1999
time: 05:27
  Old Post 07-04-2003 09:52 Visit Bearcat's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#19 Report this post to a moderator
Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Warrant officers are usually enlisted men who receive a warrant from either the President or Congress and advance beyond the enlisted grades, but aren't commissioned officers either.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:27
  Old Post 07-04-2003 09:52 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#20 Report this post to a moderator
Got spare money?

Doesnt' the navy still have warrant officers?

TheStinger is offline TheStinger
Warlord
International crime fighting playboy
Apr 2002
time: 05:27
  Old Post 07-04-2003 12:10
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#21 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

In the UK warrant officers are very common. They are the sergeant majors of the army. They are assigned to a company or battalion and are in charge of discipline and are quite senior. Nominally they are junior to all the officers, however it would be unusual for a Lt to order 1 about although thre will be called Sir or Mr.

They are also used as technical managers in teh engineers and signals

Field marshall was abolished in the UK in the last 10 years.

curtsibling is offline curtsibling
King
of the Kill!
May 2002
time: 05:27
  Old Post 07-04-2003 12:49 Visit curtsibling's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#22 Report this post to a moderator
Got spare money?

I thought the UK still has a Field Marshall...

TheStinger is offline TheStinger
Warlord
International crime fighting playboy
Apr 2002
time: 05:27
  Old Post 07-04-2003 12:58
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#23 Report this post to a moderator
Inflate your Upload Space

No the Chief of Staff is now a 4 star general. I think they reserve the right to reintorduce it in times of serious war. However as we would a t present to put more than 1 corps into the field the need for a field marshall is a bit limited.

The best reason for field marshalls was that it annoyed the French. They didn't like their amry commanders having lower ranks even though they had bigger armies.(typical British arrogance really)

Sirotnikov is offline Sirotnikov
King
<--- Yes, It's a "kitty" in a boot.
Feb 2000
time: 07:27
  Old Post 07-04-2003 14:37
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#24 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Well in the IDF there are enlisten men, non comissioned officers and warrant officers are considered the same,
and officers.

I'm not aware of any distinction between field and non field officers.

Thanks for the information though

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:27
  Old Post 07-04-2003 16:53
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#25 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

"Field Marshall Sava" I like the sound of that

Lonestar is offline Lonestar
Prince
AECCP Dark Lord of the Sith
Aug 2000
time: 00:27
  Old Post 07-04-2003 22:35 Visit Lonestar's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#26 Report this post to a moderator
Full PM-box? Change here!

Hmmm..."Grand Admiral Lonestar"

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:27
  Old Post 07-04-2003 22:51
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#27 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote:
Originally posted by TheStinger
No the Chief of Staff is now a 4 star general. I think they reserve the right to reintorduce it in times of serious war. However as we would a t present to put more than 1 corps into the field the need for a field marshall is a bit limited.

The best reason for field marshalls was that it annoyed the French. They didn't like their amry commanders having lower ranks even though they had bigger armies.(typical British arrogance really)


The Brits had Field Marshals at the time of the 1940 campaing? cause in WW2 that would be the only time the French had larger formations that the brits. In WW1 the French had Marshalls.

Tattila the Hun is offline Tattila the Hun
Prince
Tornio
Oct 2002
time: 07:27
  Old Post 08-04-2003 12:19
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#28 Report this post to a moderator
Increase the size of your Attachments

Finns have had one marshall, Carl Gustav Emil Mannerheim. He was the supremo commander of the FDF during the 1939-44 wars.

The last Grand Admiral I've heard was Thrawn, and he was assassinated by his noghri-bodyguard.

Lonestar is offline Lonestar
Prince
AECCP Dark Lord of the Sith
Aug 2000
time: 00:27
  Old Post 08-04-2003 16:38 Visit Lonestar's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#29 Report this post to a moderator
Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote:
Originally posted by Tattila the Hun
Finns have had one marshall, Carl Gustav Emil Mannerheim. He was the supremo commander of the FDF during the 1939-44 wars.

The last Grand Admiral I've heard was Thrawn, and he was assassinated by his noghri-bodyguard.


Pelleon is now Grand Admiral of the Imperial forces.

  < Last Thread     Next Thread > Post New Thread     Post A Reply
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:27.
Apolyton Time is 00:27.
    top of page
Rate This Thread:
archivepost
Forum Jump:
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
 




Contact Us - Apolyton Civilization Site - Support Us!

Building a better Apolyton through better information. Click here and take our poll!
Non-US visitors, click here!

Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.0.3
Copyright ©2000, 2001, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.

Page generated in 0.0681 seconds (93.48% PHP - 6.52% MySQL) with 31 queries
Page Loading Time:

Support Apolyton: Amazon USA | Amazon UK | Amazon DE | Amazon FR |
Support Apolyton and get FREE PLUS, Buy from Chips&Bits: Galactic Civilizations | Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition | Call to Power 2 | Civilization: The Boardgame | GURPS/ Alpha Centauri | Alpha Centauri | Civilization IV | Civilization III: Complete |


Front Page | Civilization IV | Civilization III | Civilization II | Call to Power II | Alpha Centauri | Master of Orion III
Rise of Nations | Galactic Civilizations | Galactic Civilizations II | Misc
Alt.Civs | Civ I | C:CtP I | About | News | Directory | Apolyton Store | Forums | Chat | Columns | Interviews | Newsletter
Scenario League | CSC | Clash of Civs | Spanish Site | CtP Maps | Cradle of Civ | WesW's Ctp1/2 Site | Civ3 Haven

apolyton.net | apolyton.com | civilization2.net | civilization3.net | civilization4.net | civilizationiv.info | calltopower.net | galciv.net | galciv2.net | moo3.net