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ranskaldan
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Beijing ~ Singapore ~ Toronto ~ All hail to the new Rome
Sep 2001
time: 00:27
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I have Folding running right now and not SETI.
While I don't underestimate SETI's potential, I think it's suicidal if the Aztecs had figured some way to get the Spanish to come earlier.
The Aztecs were crushed, destroyed, and nearly exterminated. If only the Spanish had been delayed just slightly, some event (a catastrophe, economic stagnation, whatever) might have knocked out European exploration for a while and given the Aztecs time to catch up in technology.
Hence no, I am not running SETI. I am running Folding, because Folding helps the Aztecs catch up.
Last edited by ranskaldan on 09-04-2003 at 02:50
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Solver
Because discovering aliens (who ARE there) is much more important than understanding causes of diseased, as heartless as this might sound. Heck, it would be the biggest thing ever for all of the human civilization. Not to mention they might well have the cancer cure... |
Are you thinking this through?
It doesn't change a damn thing if SETI picks up what it thinks to be transmissions of aliens way out there. It'll be centuries before we're even capable of getting out there. And at that point, we'd be capable of getting out there, we wouldn't need to look at what the SETI project did in the 1900s...
You seem to have some kind of childish fantasy that if SETI picks up an alien transmission, we then be able to contact them (never mind how many years it takes to even get signals out that far, never mind how you'd communicate coherently with them, for all we know we'd be sending "go to hell, mother****ers!" each time we say "we come in peace").
The reality is protein folding simulations is giving real-world benefit to people today, it's unraveling the secrets of both protein folding and the human genome (Genome@Home).
Just because you think it'd be nifty to know someone else is out there doesn't make it more important. In fact, I'd go as far as saying you should be ashamed of saying it's more important to use computer cycles re-analyzing the same SETI packets several times over incase we can pick something up, rather than helping cure diseases...
quote:
Besides, folding research can be done without a distributed supercomputer. SETI can be not. |
This is beyond logic...
If folding can be done without a distributed supercomputer, so can SETI.
The problem is SETI is such a joke, there is no supercomputer that'd waste time doing it.
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:27
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Unfortunately, it's a rather fallicious argument.
SETI requires far less computing power than Protein science, because it's now in fact limited by how fast the radio telescopes collect data rather than analyze it. It's for that reason that they backtracked and are reanalyzing the data for "integrity" purposes -- they don't know what to do with the power.
Protein sciences still require tons more power, we're nowhere near to understanding how they work and further simulations are necessary. Yes, they have money to fund the research, and yes, they've got many supercomputers doing it, and SETI doesn't -- but that's because people recognize the guaranteed usefulness of protein folding and SETI is a pipedream.
It's incredibly naive to say that "SETI doesn't have supercomputers, protein folding does, ergo I'll run SETI". One is a cutesy "oh this is so neat, we can pick up garbled radio transmissions possibly from other people we won't be able to see and communicate with for centuries", the other is "let's try to cure these diseases which affect hundreds of millions of people".
It's a no-brainer when you think of it.
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Solver
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Apolyton Duke Of Something
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Latvia, Riga
Sep 2000
time: 07:27
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Asher, I do realize the inability of immediate contact. It will, at best, be a few decades before we can even reply... for me, though, and for everyone else, discovering the aliens - not necessarily contacting, would change everything. And I mean it.
Hmm, does folding require as much raw power as SETI? And, as already pointed out, they do get money for their own stuff. And they can use all the supercomputers for that.
In folding, my computer can't one day come across a cure. It merely runs various simulations, and I have even no clue if things it's simulating are real, if those scientists know what they're doing, etc. In the end, cancer cure will be made without all of that.
For the record, I believe in a government conspiracy to hide the fact that it's known of alien presence here for over 50 years. Yes, call me agent Mulder.
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Solver
Hmm, does folding require as much raw power as SETI? |
Far more...
quote:
And, as already pointed out, they do get money for their own stuff. And they can use all the supercomputers for that. |
And, as already pointed out, it's not that simple. Folding takes way more power to do than SETI. SETI is fundamentally restricted by how it receives data from radio telecopes, they only have a very limited amount of data to work with. Protein folding and human genome research already has so much data and not nearly enough resources to accurately simulate it all, even with today's supercomputers working on it in addition to projects such as Folding@Home.
quote:
In folding, my computer can't one day come across a cure. It merely runs various simulations, and I have even no clue if things it's simulating are real, if those scientists know what they're doing, etc. In the end, cancer cure will be made without all of that. |
That's one of the silliest things I've ever heard you say.
quote:
For the record, I believe in a government conspiracy to hide the fact that it's known of alien presence here for over 50 years. Yes, call me agent Mulder. |
And this is a close second.
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Solver
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Apolyton Duke Of Something
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Latvia, Riga
Sep 2000
time: 07:27
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quote:
And, as already pointed out, it's not that simple. Folding takes way more power to do than SETI. SETI is fundamentally restricted by how it receives data from radio telecopes, they only have a very limited amount of data to work with. Protein folding and human genome research already has so much data and not nearly enough resources to accurately simulate it all, even with today's supercomputers working on it in addition to projects such as Folding@Home.
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As of now, they still receive more data over at the telescope than even the great amount of computers involved can handle.
quote:
That's one of the silliest things I've ever heard you say.
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Well, then you heard me say a little  . Really, CAN my computer come accross a cure formula one day? It can't. In the best event scenario, some succesfull protein folding simulations will happen that might show regression of the cancer cells, or whatever. After that, it still doesn't mean that the starting conditions were right, that it's actually going to happen, etc.
quote:
And this is a close second.
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Just BTW, I did more than watch a couple of movies (all movies involving aliens suck anyway) or read one UFO book. I have done quite some research on the subject, and I do also have a paper and a few smaller reports on the overall proof of everything that you guys would call... mad conspiracy theories.
Right now... I can't agree with that line in your sig .
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Solver
As of now, they still receive more data over at the telescope than even the great amount of computers involved can handle. |
I've heard the exact opposite. I've heard, in fact, that they've turned up the "sensitivity" of the analysis and are recrunching old packets...
quote:
Well, then you heard me say a little . Really, CAN my computer come accross a cure formula one day? It can't. |
If you're really this short-sighted, perhaps you should be using United Devices instead, then. It does drug and general antibody/vaccination modelling interactions that could, in fact, mean you and your computer came across a cure formula to many diseases.
I really don't have some obsession with needing a "lottery" type atmosphere thinking "Wow! My computer found aliens, or my computer cured cancer!" since it's all luck of the draw anyway.
UD also gives cash prizes to the most active participants...
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Solver
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Apolyton Duke Of Something
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Latvia, Riga
Sep 2000
time: 07:27
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quote:
I've heard the exact opposite. I've heard, in fact, that they've turned up the "sensitivity" of the analysis and are recrunching old packets...
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Haven't heard that. They still are getting the data a lot, and many times it seems that there's not enough comps. All in all, only so much of the registered users actually contribute something.
quote:
I really don't have some obsession with needing a "lottery" type atmosphere thinking "Wow! My computer found aliens, or my computer cured cancer!" since it's all luck of the draw anyway.
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I don't need the lottery thing... and I don't care for cash, for sure. I need the feeling that the distributed computing thing is the most important aspect of SETI@Home, it does all the work, and if something's found, they can work on it well. For Folding, though, it's still a LOT of other work provided that something is found there. Again, Folding@Home won't produce a chemical formula for a cancer drug. Or will it?
I know I'm being dumb in general, and dumb with medicine/biology things, but I don't see how participation of Net users worldwide is so critical to the folding research project. However - I do appreciate the work of those who run Folding@Home, for I do not doubt a second that the cures are one of the best things that can happen to us.
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09-04-2003 02:45
The SETI project which was run by the USA government was closed many, many years ago by NASA. However SETI@Home is a project by Berkley, University of California. Please, try to maintain the facts as they are, despite SETI sounds more familiar.
I concur, SETI can hopefully lead to the age-old question: "Are We Alone?" It really doesn't matter if we can do anything right now with that knowledge, but it will point us in the right direction concerning space exporation. 
Then again, they have only done one set... But still, that must be a darn good comp. 
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