05-04-2003 15:47									#1
	Free information thread: Tanya Grotter vs Harry Potter Remove this text

It's third thread of my free information party. The first thread was closed, the second thread was concerned about cracks and applying freedom of speech on cracks. This one is about literature and difference between plagiarism and parody.

D. Emec (russian writer) wrote his book that called "Tanya Grotter". The storyline of it is HarryPotter-like. The child whose parnts were killed by very bad mage and but the child survived, neutralized the bad mage and was educated by 'Bad" relatives. After it the child moved to the magic school. You know this storyline... But J. Rowling, author of Harry Potter, thought that using previously used storyline is plagiarism, and it's prohibited by international copyright law. The trial lasts until now. I started to think, that J. Rowling is stupid. She envy D. Emec who wrote parody better, than original. The author of Potter claims, that using known storyline is plagiarism and it must be forbidden by international copyright law. But all the parodies are usein "previously used story line". Does it mean, that the whole genre must be forbidden.

P.S: Ming, i ask you for joining party. I think, that you support the right idea.

	05-04-2003 15:59									#2
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Please state the question clearly.

	05-04-2003 16:05									#3
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The question is very clear: Because parody is genre, that based on something created before some people compare it to plagiary. Do you think that they are right.

	05-04-2003 16:25									#4
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It doesn't seem like parody. what's the parody in it? ( sarcasm, etc. )

	05-04-2003 16:47									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel It doesn't seem like parody. what's the parody in it? ( sarcasm, etc. )

Did you read Tanya Grotter? If you can, read it in Russian. I think, tjat the book will be translated to Hebrew soon.

The parody is, that it is not Horwart, Tanya Grotter is studying in school for juvenile crimes. I think, that it's enought to be considered parody. In third part of Tanya Grotter "Hurry Poopper" is mentioned. He is a student from foreighn school. And it's written

quote: Этот Гурри Пуппер пардия на нашу Таню

(This Hurry Pupper is parody on our Tanya.)
In this way the author says, that there is no such a thing as plagiary in literature. The important is how to write and not what to write.

	05-04-2003 18:56									#6
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I voted no, but would like to point out that I think this Tanya Grotter business is more plagiarism than anything. This is clearly an attempt to cash in on the success of the Harry Potter franchise, and poor wit to boot.

	05-04-2003 19:33									#7
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I also voted no that parodies are not plagerism, but I don't think that Tanya Grotter is a parody.

	05-04-2003 21:30									#8
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It looks like a really bad parody. Don't kill it. Just let it drop to spot 77 million on the amazon bestseller list.

	06-04-2003 00:17									#9
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I read it. Well, big parts. It's poorly written, a humble excuse for a parody, that basically takes things from HP, the good things, but anything added beyond is absolute crap.

	06-04-2003 01:27									#10
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How about Bored of the Rings, the LOTR parody?

	06-04-2003 02:32									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar Warrior It looks like a really bad parody. Don't kill it. Just let it drop to spot 77 million on the amazon bestseller list.

I think Amazon and the internet makes the success of such books possible, and I think this is the issue Rowling is trying to address here.

I mean, how is it possible that a bad parody, where "Hurry Poopper" is the height of wit, and written in Russian is selling a million+ copies and is being translated into other languages?

It's because there a literally millions of Harry Potter fans out there who will want even a bad parody to complete their collections Harry Potter books and memorabilia.

	06-04-2003 18:36									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Solver I read it. Well, big parts. It's poorly written, a humble excuse for a parody, that basically takes things from HP, the good things, but anything added beyond is absolute crap.

It adds a lot of god things, for example "alive moustache". Also the magic game - "dragonball" is better than original one. The storyline is brighter.
Solver, did you read the book completely or only first 20 pages?

	06-04-2003 18:39									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Static Universe I think Amazon and the internet makes the success of such books possible, and I think this is the issue Rowling is trying to address here. I mean, how is it possible that a bad parody, where "Hurry Poopper" is the height of wit, and written in Russian is selling a million+ copies and is being translated into other languages? It's because there a literally millions of Harry Potter fans out there who will want even a bad parody to complete their collections Harry Potter books and memorabilia.

TG is enoght independent book. HP is fantasy for children, and TG is more adult fantasy.


And HP fans will also buy HP printers (Hewlett packard)

	06-04-2003 19:40									#14
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quote: Solver, did you read the book completely or only first 20 pages?

I read the first half entirely... then got bored and read it a faster pace. Some ideas might be nice, but they're written (implemented) very poorly.

	06-04-2003 22:47									#15
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quote: Originally posted by muxec adult fantasy.

What sort of "adult fantasy?"

	06-04-2003 23:17									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar Warrior What sort of "adult fantasy?"

It's more serious and philosofic.

	06-04-2003 23:24									#17
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quote: Originally posted by muxec It's more serious and philosofic.

I guess you aren't a native English speaker. "Adult Fantasy" has a connotation of pornography.

	06-04-2003 23:57									#18
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Your meaning of "adult fantasy" is slang. Normal meaning of adult fantasy is adult fantasy.


P.S: I want pornosmiles :censored:

	07-04-2003 04:19									#19
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I think muxec is using excellent English. Although it wouldn't hurt to insert a "the" now and then.

Plagiarism is sometimes passed off as parody. For me, a true parody would have to add something. Often good parody pokes fun at an original work. But it often pokes fun at certain ideas or people while being completely original.

Having not read Tanya Grotter I cannot say if the work is a parody or plagiarism. So I didn't vote.

In some cases plagiarism is obvious because whole sections of text will be copied. The copying of ideas in fiction is a more subtle form of plagiarism and it is harder to prove.

Harry Potter may be written for children. You could even consider 'Babe' to be a kid's movie. But many adults read Rowling to see what all the fuss was about. Including me. And I found the series to be a good light read.

	07-04-2003 13:22									#20
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I know, that my English is bad. But fantasy is fantasy in any language.

The copied idea is not always sign of parody. The idea of love to member of hostile family was implemed before Shakespeare, but he implemented it better.