06-04-2003 10:13									#1
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Are Great Wonders supposed to go obsolete when the specific tech is discovered by any Civ, or just by the Civ with the GW? My last game had a discrepency that seemed like a bug to me.

After hurrying the Great Library, I remembered seeing Cupernicus's O being built in an AI capital a few turns earlier. Oops. But over the next few turns I got 3 or 4 more techs from it. Was this because it was built after someone discovered Education, or because I didn't have it myself yet?

I quit the game before I received Edu because of a fatal error on my part, so I didn't confirm it myself. Anyone know the applicable rule? Do your wonders last longer if you keep your own population ignorant? I'm pretty sure that previous versions had global knowledge pooled for this purpose.

	06-04-2003 10:26									#2
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I never see the message until I discover education (or the GL gives it to me).

	06-04-2003 15:42									#3
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GW's become obsolete when you acquire the relevant tech, regardless of whether anyone else has it sooner.

I rarely build the Great Library but I do enjoy selling education to the AI that does!

	06-04-2003 18:59									#4
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I think itīs the same with the other wonders that become obsolete. In Civ II, it was made i the other way as described, and of course that was a little bit harder. However, itīs a little bit strange that you should try to avoid some techs so your wonder doesnīt get obsolete. But I think itīs good that it isnīt that many wonders that even get obsolete in Civ III.

	06-04-2003 20:27									#5
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It's when the civ controlling the wonder invents the technology it becomes obsolete.

	06-04-2003 20:28									#6
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Yes, a wonder expires only when YOU get the tech. And, yes, this is different than the way it worked in CivI or CivII.

This is why when I build the GL, I research the Engineering path because I know that I'll get Monotheism, Theology, Education for free.

	06-04-2003 20:31									#7
	Full PM-box? Change here!

This actually remembers me of a strategy my little brother used for a while (I'm not sure if he still uses it, or if he's been better on researching things now).

He kept almost no research for a long time, and built very many units of as good units he had (without having researched the education). Then he made sure he had contact with all AIs, and suddenly he took over the city with the GL and got all techs that atleast two AIs had (even techs after the education)

	06-04-2003 20:39									#8
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That won't work; you can't get techs after education. When the GL gives you multiple techs on a turn, it will give you the "oldest" tech first, then the next "oldest", up until education. Once it gives you education, it goes obsolete immediately.

	06-04-2003 20:50									#9
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No, the GL goes obsolete on the turn AFTER you get education. So you can get a whole string of techs sometimes.

If you get a start on an isolated continent one tactic is to build the GL and make sure to trade for communications as soon as the first AI civ reaches you. With communications to all the AI's you will get virtually all the techs they know between them. The problem is your units will be outdated and your cities will not have many improvements but better that than not having the techs either.

	06-04-2003 21:12									#10
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I'm pretty positive it goes obsolete immediately, not the turn after. I'll have to watch closely next time.

	06-04-2003 23:53									#11
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I was as surprised as you the first time mylittle brother showed that he could get that many techs by just taking over a city. And he did indeed get past the education.

	13-04-2003 22:25									#12
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I confirm CerberusIV's comment: the GLib goes obsolete the turn *after* you get Education, so it is indeed possible to get a whole slew of later techs.

There are threads on this somewhere in the Strat forum.

	15-04-2003 04:14									#13
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It's the turn after you get Education. It's possible to go from Ancient to early Industrial eras in tech in one turn. Doesn't happen often, but it can happen. I've picked up 3 or 4 techs beyond Education on the turn I made contact with other civs.

	16-04-2003 04:05									#14
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

In SP, if you have GL and an AI find education, the AI immidetily trade it away only to stop you from get any more free techs as quickly as possible.

If an AI have GL and and another AI find education, it not seems to happen that fast at all. I'm not sure. But often the computer program use a number of such small cheats to improve AI's apparent skill against the human player.

You usally canīt prove such small cheats but after several games you get the feeling of "all AI against the Human".

	16-04-2003 06:08									#15
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For all Wonders, it's the turn after you get the relevant tech that they go obsolete. The effect of this rule is just more obvious with the Great Library than with other Wonders.

There was an Apolyton University game a few months back on an isolated island where the rules had been furthered modified so that contact could not happen until after Navigation (IIRC). If you built the Great Library in this game, you would get all the techs for both the Ancient and Middle Ages all at once. Whoa!

You couldn't actually build much for the 5000 years until this happened, but that's another story.

- TT

	27-04-2003 10:46									#16
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So, this applies to all the Wonders, even the Great Wall?

It makes sense for the others, but what- enemy cannonballs bounce off of city walls until the population sees cannons firing from their own city and *poof*, their psionic powers disappear? :D Kinda Douglas Adams-esque.

	27-04-2003 15:02									#17
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I've never built the great wall - never seemed worth the effort. I do play on Emperor though, so any GW attempts will focus on the GL.