06-04-2003 11:16									#1
	House votes to limit French role in Iraqi reconstruction? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

US Congress bans France, Germany, Russia, Syria from rebuilding Iraq

* Senate approves $80 billion for Iraq war

WASHINGTON: The House of Representatives late on Thursday passed a supplementary budget amendment excluding France, Germany, Russia and Syria from taking part in US-funded reconstruction bids in Iraq, because they opposed the US-led war in Iraq.

Proposed by Minnesota congressman Mark Kennedy and passed by show of hands, the measure would even bar access by the four countries to information on reconstruction bids in Iraq.

The Kennedy amendment stipulated “that none of the funds made available in the bill for reconstruction efforts in Iraq may be used to procure goods or services from any entity that includes information on a response to a Request for Proposal (RFP) that indicates that such entity is organized under the laws of France, Germany, the Russian Federation, or Syria.”

A similar amendment from Washington state congressman George Nethercutt that included China was voted down.

“This amendment sends a signal to our allies that we appreciate those who support us in our time of need and remember those that have sought to thwart coalition efforts to defeat Saddam Hussein’s regime,” Nethercutt said of his measure. “The coalition of the unwilling should not participate in reconstruction with US tax dollars,” he added. The Kennedy amendment was included in a supplemental budget amendment authorizing 77.9 billion dollars in funding to cover the costs of war in Iraq and the start of reconstruction in Iraq passed by the House by a 414-12 vote.

The Senate late Thursday also passed its version of the supplemental budget amendment totaling 78.7 billion dollars. The two versions will have to be reconciled and approved again by each body before being sent to the White House to be signed by US President George Bush.

The matter could become a mute point during the conference discussions later since the Senate rejected the same measure so it is unlikely to be included in the compromise version.

Republican Senator John Ensign (Nevada), however, had failed to withdraw his amendment — despite objections from the White House — arguing that it would worsen relations with Germany and France, both of whom opposed the US-led war on Iraq in the United Nations.

Several opposition Democratic senators also opposed the Ensign measure.

“This amendment is enormously destructive,” said Senator Diane Feinstein of California. “If America is going to become an arrogant nation, this is a good way to begin,” she added.

US Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage on Thursday sent a letter to House Majority Leader, Republican Dennis Hastert, warning him the Ensign amendment would place the bulk of the cost of providing humanitarian and reconstruction aid for Iraq on US shoulders, creating great economic and political hardships for the country. —AFP

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/defaul..._5-4-2003_pg1_7

Oddly enough the only sources that seem to be reporting this development are irakwar.ru, a couple Pakistani newspapers, and some minor US newspapers.

Are these people just plain stupid, or do they have secret dreams of making Iraq a US colony?

	06-04-2003 11:19									#2
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Sweet! More money for Halliburton!

Must go out and invest in Halliburton stock.

and besides, they're only banning white or sorta-white countries, which is good for China and us "yellow" folk.

	06-04-2003 11:21									#3
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You forgot "both."

The US can certainly do that wrt the funding it provides, but it's a joke. All someone has to do is form a US subsidiary, or better yet, one in an offshore tax haven like Barbados, and they're past the rule. Not to mention collusive subcontracting, etc. There's a million games.

Where the US would get into problems is if it starts taking Iraqi oil to pay for Iraqi reconstruction, and then restricts the qualified bidders, but with US tax money, just about anything is permissible in terms of qualifying or restricting bidders.

Nice that the Congress still knows who it's master is, though (China).

Learn Mandarin. It's apparently the language of the future, since US politicians and corporations will whore themselves to the Chinese every chance they get.

	06-04-2003 11:34									#4
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I'm not saying that Congress can't do this. (I mean it is our money they're spending). It's just stupid (as you pointed out, there are obvious loopholes which make the act largely symbolic). Apparently the concept of diplomacy and not pissing people off repeatedly is too subtle for some Republican Congressmen.

	06-04-2003 11:41									#5
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It's not that it's too subtle for republican congressmen, victor; it's that in these times, its far too easy to rack up brownie points among a tuned out, spoon-fed populace by being jingoistic.

all you have to do to get modern america to like you is be telegenic, good with sound bytes, and act like you're doing it all for their good and the country's good.

almost nobody in this great country of ours realizes that the sentence that follows is more an indictment of the predicament that america is in, rather than a point of glory that shows how great our nation is:
"only in america can someone like kelly clarkson go from an unknown to a recording artist because of the opportunities she's been given!"

	06-04-2003 11:41									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Victor Galis I'm not saying that Congress can't do this. (I mean it is our money they're spending). It's just stupid (as you pointed out, there are obvious loopholes which make the act largely symbolic). Apparently the concept of diplomacy and not pissing people off repeatedly is too subtle for some Republican Congressmen.

It's just a different concept of diplomacy. In the Bushian worldview, we just call up other countries and inform them of what we expect of them.

	06-04-2003 11:42									#7
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quote: Apparently the concept of diplomacy and not pissing people off repeatedly is too subtle for some Republican Congressmen.

I love how Democrats blame 'Republican congressmen' for everything that is evil

quote: The Kennedy amendment was included in a supplemental budget amendment authorizing 77.9 billion dollars in funding to cover the costs of war in Iraq and the start of reconstruction in Iraq passed by the House by a 414-12 vote.

	06-04-2003 11:43									#8
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Considering Bush was against the proposal, is it really fair to blame him for the House?

	06-04-2003 11:59									#9
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You mean the sitting Republican President has no control over the Republican leadership in the House?

Classic "good politcian-bad politician"

	06-04-2003 12:01									#10
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It's all moot anyway. The same amendment was rejected by the Senate.

	06-04-2003 12:02									#11
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America has led the liberation so America has the right to decide how things are done in Iraq. As the French were the main opposers to such a plan it's great news that thier cowardly nation will not see the profit's from Iraqi oil.

Iraqi people will see great things under US and certainly a lot better than what they had under Sadman Hussain.

	06-04-2003 12:06									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Apparently the concept of diplomacy and not pissing people off repeatedly is too subtle for some Republican Congressmen. I love how Democrats blame 'Republican congressmen' for everything that is evil

Victor's a commie, not a real Democrat, but even commies are sometimes right.

quote: The Kennedy amendment was included in a supplemental budget amendment authorizing 77.9 billion dollars in funding to cover the costs of war in Iraq and the start of reconstruction in Iraq passed by the House by a 414-12 vote.

Come on, Imran, you're more clever than that. Read carefully - "The Kennedy amendment was included in a supplemental budget authorizing... war in Iraq.

So the choice is vote for a bill with a dumbassed amendment, or run for re-election against the whole talk radio set and 50 billion in Republican money stirring up a bunch of two-digit IQ jingoistic voters about how you "voted not to support our boys and girls in uniform (pull out file photos of Jessica Lynch holding an American flag while on a stretcher), so that you could give "Mr. and Mrs. Taxpayer's hard-earned money to a bunch of cheese-eater corporations and take jobs away from hard-working Amurkins."

At least, that's how I'd run the campaign against anyone who voted against the bill because of that amendment. You know how the political drill works in the US.

	06-04-2003 12:09									#13
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The amendment passed though, didn't it? And since the Dems didn't raise any stink over it, I don't assume they put up much of a fight.

	06-04-2003 12:09									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Rothy America has led the liberation so America has the right to decide how things are done in Iraq. As the French were the main opposers to such a plan it's great news that thier cowardly nation will not see the profit's from Iraqi oil. Iraqi people will see great things under US and certainly a lot better than what they had under Sadman Hussain.

Well, making it the 51st state in the Union is out, because we'd have to give 'em citizenship. Same with colonials, so I guess we'll have to stick with a US-friendly proxy government. We'll give 'em democracy, though - they can vote for whover they want from a slate of candidates approved by the US.

	06-04-2003 12:10									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui The amendment passed though, didn't it? And since the Dems didn't raise any stink over it, I don't assume they put up much of a fight.

You don't put up a fight over amendments to spinnable bills.

	06-04-2003 12:11									#16
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat they can vote for whover they want from a slate of candidates approved by the US.

The Germans seemed to like it.

	06-04-2003 12:19									#17
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But 50 years later, they've gotten too big for their britches again. We can't have that in Iraq.

	06-04-2003 13:45									#18
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quote: But 50 years later, they've gotten too big for their britches again. We can't have that in Iraq.

Why not? If democracy in Iraq makes the Middle East as pussified as democracy in Germany made Europe, we'll never have to fear violence from the Arab world again...

	06-04-2003 13:58									#19
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quote: America has led the liberation so America has the right to decide how things are done in Iraq. As the French were the main opposers to such a plan it's great news that thier cowardly nation will not see the profit's from Iraqi oil. Iraqi people will see great things under US and certainly a lot better than what they had under Sadman Hussain.

ah, so i see the brave american corporations, such as Halliburton, will be the ones to profit from Iraqi oil.
and that makes ever so much difference.
i still find it funny that although the Chinese were also vowing the use their security council veto, they will suffer no repercussions. why is that, rothy? perhaps you'd like to enlighten me to this small point?
i have no doubt the iraqi people will have it better under the united states than under saddam. but that still doesn't solve the problem of how to deal with the anti-american sentiment that's somewhat endemic to the region, especially if the reconstruction is undertaken by american companies and paid for by iraqi oil.

	06-04-2003 23:04									#20
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Ahh, a great example why congresspeople get only two years.

Hmmm, i wonder if we will bar the government of Iraq form taing superior bids from comanies form these states once they get into power?

And peope honestly wonder why the world thinks we are a bunch of arrogant imbeciles.

	06-04-2003 23:09									#21
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dont attack Iraq and keep $80 billion dollars to get rid of world honger

	06-04-2003 23:12									#22
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silly dbts, the $80 billion will go to rid the world of some hunger, at least a little in iraq.

if it had stayed in the us, you can bet your ass it would have gone to senator sh|thead's pork project in podunk city, usa.

	06-04-2003 23:15									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: But 50 years later, they've gotten too big for their britches again. We can't have that in Iraq. Why not? If democracy in Iraq makes the Middle East as pussified as democracy in Germany made Europe, we'll never have to fear violence from the Arab world again...

It's not democracy, it's the people.

	06-04-2003 23:18									#24
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Yeah I think that we might have gone a little over board in our reeducation of the German populace.

	06-04-2003 23:21									#25
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I think the Germans didn't need anyone telling them , specially Americans of all people, about the horrors of war, since they had immense practice dishing them out, and some fair one of getting it also. What the hell can some guy from Oklahoma tell some dude in berlin about the Horrors of war?

And giuven what a half-assd job we did of De-nazification, well, lets hope we do de-baathcification better.

	06-04-2003 23:30									#26
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don't worry, we will.

after all, in the case of germany, we were talking to defeated equals who had once had a democracy, and who were white.

in this case, we'll be educating backwards brownies who don't know a think about democratic tradition, who only know about islam and dictatorship and hardship.

go america, rah rah rah.

	06-04-2003 23:42									#27
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quote: go america, rah rah rah.

Here, here!

	07-04-2003 00:11									#28
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whether it is symbolic, or atleast partially successful, i can't see how this is a bad idea. France was making money off iraq before the war. Then they avoided the war so they wouldn't have to spend any money there, and now they want to make (our) money off of them again?! I mean seriously, that is a bit rediculous...

	07-04-2003 00:24									#29
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France was making money off Iraq in a little way called "the market". If the US belieevs in free markets, then French participation in Iraq after the war would be based on whether French comapnies have competative bids, not on political decisions by the US.

	07-04-2003 00:26									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed after all, in the case of germany, we were talking to defeated equals who had once had a democracy, and who were white. in this case, we'll be educating backwards brownies who don't know a think about democratic tradition, who only know about islam and dictatorship and hardship.

Take your racist comments somewhere else...
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