08-04-2003 12:48									#31
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Team scores:

191 (+4) Gathering Storm
197 (+3) Demogyptica
164 (+2) Glory of War
198 (+3) Role Play
134 (+2) Vox Controli
199 (+3) Legoland

	08-04-2003 13:04									#32
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I'd also build where the settler is. Concerning the name, I'd vote for Olibanum (from the incense); it sounds not bad, although has not much in common with wind.

	08-04-2003 13:08									#33
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How many shields are in Tempest's build right now?

	08-04-2003 13:17									#34
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Fragrant Breeze, or Spring Breeze, maybe? (It woudn't hurt to have some mild weather somewhere in our empire. )

	08-04-2003 13:18									#35
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Tempest currently has 24 shields.

	08-04-2003 13:24									#36
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Aeson, are we expecting to need a road on the forest near Tempest to maintain happiness without having to crank up the luxury slider an extra notch? If not, I'd rather prioritize either a mine on a regular grassland or a chop of the forest by Monsoon over a road there.

	08-04-2003 13:27									#37
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I like Olibanum, especially if we combine it with a stormy name.. Olibanum Gale...Twister...?

	08-04-2003 13:30									#38
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Olibanum Gale it is, at least for the time being.

	08-04-2003 13:31									#39
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No I don't think it matters. We are stuck on 20% luxuries either way. The forest will be the last tile we are using in almost any scenario as well... I think we have enough workers to get it roaded first anyways. The chop on the forest would work well (pray for bonus). We have more shields than food in Monsoon's radius.

I think we will have 42 shields in Tempest when it needs to complete the Aquaduct to grow. That leaves us a 232 gold rush.

	08-04-2003 13:35									#40
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Okay, setting up a chop for the forest by Monsoon. The timing is going to be absolutely perfect to finish our temple, too.

	08-04-2003 13:38									#41
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I'm going to back research off to zero for the moment in order to rebuild our cash reserves for the aqueduct rush, if there are no objections.

	08-04-2003 13:59									#42
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So the chop will finish the Temple in 6 turns? That would put us at 11 turns before opening up the final Hill Tempest needs. Tempest needs 5 of those building the Aquaduct, then can sit at size 8 (20 shields per turn) for 2 turns and build a Barracks.

Then we can either pump out 2 WC's and add 4 more Workers to get to size 12 at the right time, or add 2 Workers and spend the 4 turns on a Marketplace, then build it up to 12.

Either way we can free up our next couple Settlers to head N, where they will do a lot more good than a +1 food Desert city.

	08-04-2003 13:59									#43
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I checked our military status, and we're average relative to GoW and weak relative to everyone else. How's that for irony: Glory of War one of the two weakest civs militarily? In other news, GoW has switched their Pyramids over to the Great Library.

And now that Vox has established an embassy, we can see The Voice and its surrounding area. Vox's starting position actually isn't all that bad after all: they have two game forests adjacent to The Voice and a cattle tile two tiles away. They only have one grassland with shield, but even so, they could have given us a real run for our money REXing if they didn't have the tiles geared as far as possible away from growth and in favor of production. They also have an incense two tiles away from their capital. The Voice is five tiles due north of Elipolis (if I counted correctly), and there's another city in between on the opposite side of Vox's one-tile lake (and in a position to use one of the game forests)..

	08-04-2003 14:02									#44
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Six turns from now to the temple (with chop assist) confirmed. So it sounds like we have the option of sending our next settler in Vox's direction if we want to.

	08-04-2003 14:13									#45
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Shots sent. I'll send the turn in a few minutes if no one has anything else for me.

	08-04-2003 14:54									#46
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When Vox opened their game for the first time, my guess is their they were were more then dreaming about winning this game.
-
Re: GL;

That's not really good news...

	08-04-2003 14:58									#47
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Turn sent.

	08-04-2003 15:12									#48
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What about a WM? no offer from Vox?

	08-04-2003 16:48									#49
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Wow, such amazing developments! And all this happened while I was asleep...

Regarding research:
I suggest that we put ourselves in the situation that would allow us the most versatility. Let's research up until we are about one turn at ~30% science from completion (or if we have to save up cash for specific rushes in the mean time, so be it) and then turn science off. Once we decide that we want to release Feudalism to the world on the next turn (when we've finalized deals with everyone), we simply turn science back on.

Btw, I'm very interested to see how fast the 2nd potentially fastest researcher is. Nathan, could you please check next turn how much GNP the 2nd and 3rd places make?

Oh, and of course, to the WM from Vox!

	08-04-2003 18:58									#50
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Great news about the map, and that Vox's land is decent/good. That means when we take it, we can get some use out of it.

-Arrian

	08-04-2003 21:56									#51
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I have even less moral problems with conquering Vox now: They call that desert country, with only a few grass tiles? Their capital could have been a super settler pump, or at least be a lot better used with some chops and irrigation. It's nearly as good as ours, we have extra commerce from the river of course.

As to getting Vox's WM: excellent One less problem to care about.

DeepO

	08-04-2003 22:08									#52
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Wonder what they think about our city and its view?


How many cities can they see now? Wonder what they think about our capitol

	08-04-2003 22:11									#53
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Asleep, they know our Capital is completely in-land, and can't see any nearby cities. I'm not sure if they saw the worker, the spear and the WC outside of EotS, though. Doesn't matter much either

Can a city be investigated if you don't know where it is at the map, but do know it built a wonder?

DeepO

	08-04-2003 22:12									#54
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One other thing they saw: the 4 plain furs are not worked by EotS. How much they deduct from that is noather question

DeepO

	08-04-2003 23:38									#55
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Can someone post a screenie of Vox's land in the screenshot thread, please?

Opening the screenshots at home takes forever.

Thanks in advance.

-Arrian

	09-04-2003 01:16									#56
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Thanks to Shiber for posting the screenshot.

My response to it: OMFG! The Voice should have been a better settler pump than EotS. Just as much chopping, better bonus resources. I like our commerce situation better, but their land is NOWHERE NEAR as bad as they pretended!

-Arrian

	09-04-2003 01:51									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian but their land is NOWHERE NEAR as bad as they pretended!

I was thinking about this too, but I do not think they lied: they kept on saying on poor their prospects were for expansion (very tight for land), and said very little about the tiles around their capital. I'm actually suprised they did not attempt to out-REX us (peacefully, of course).


Dominae

	09-04-2003 03:27									#58
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Just one thing about the WM, it safe to assume others can see most of our land now too. Especially if they sold their WM to X after the embassy's.
And why exactly did they waste that much money it, while they need all they can get for their eugh interesting excursion on the main land.

	09-04-2003 04:21									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Dominae I was thinking about this too, but I do not think they lied: they kept on saying on poor their prospects were for expansion (very tight for land), and said very little about the tiles around their capital. I'm actually suprised they did not attempt to out-REX us (peacefully, of course).

It's another indication of their lack of Civ expertise. With the way they used the land, their capital was only decent: the equivalent of three grasslands with shield (unless I missed something) and a cow. Couple that with no river and poor prospects for expanding near their capital, and consider that they did not make a granary a high priority, and it's an unimpressive starting position. But if they'd thought of it, that same land could have led to a four-turn settler pump that would have out-REXed us for quite some time even in spite of our free settler (considering how horribly much disease cost us).

By the way, the game forest tiles and Vox's decision not to chop them probably help explain Vox's willingness to free up a worker to road toward Dissidentville.

	09-04-2003 07:43									#60
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quote: It's another indication of their lack of Civ expertise...

Yeah, that too. I don't think they know what they've got there. They got dealt a solid hand (capitol-wise) and played it poorly.

Add in their odd (to say the least) diplomatic dealings, and man!

By the way, Nathan, I agree with your posts in the main PTWDemo forum (MacArthur thread), but I'm glad you threw in the disclaimer about not representing our official position. Pretty arrogant of the Bobians to claim the whole continent they are nowhere near to really claiming (via settling/cultural borders that is) and then pin the "aggressor" label on Vox for trying to settle along the coast.

-Arrian