10-06-2003 10:25									#421
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quote: Originally posted by Sava Gigure is a bum and should have been booed...

Do you know anything about hockey?

	10-06-2003 10:27									#422
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quote: Originally posted by Tingkai Do you know anything about hockey?

I should ask you the same question... the "team" doesn't make saves... the goalie does.

as I've said before, Gigure is a good goalie... the second best in the playoffs.

	10-06-2003 10:49									#423
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quote: Originally posted by Sava I should ask you the same question... the "team" doesn't make saves... the goalie does.

Come off it. The Devils play defensive hockey and they do it better than anyone else. It's not just Brodeur. The Ducks hardly got any great scoring chances because the Devils defence and offence tied them up.

Why should Brodeur get it? Why not Friesen with his timely game winning goals? Or what about Neidermayer or Langenbrunner? Or Scott Stevens?

And look at the stats.
Broduer: 1.70 GAA, 934% SVA, 7 SO
Giguere: 1.62 GAA, 945 SVA, 6 SO

Giguere carried his team to the finals. That's why he's MVP.

	10-06-2003 10:58									#424
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quote: That's why he's MVP.

He's MVP because there are a bunch of dumbass sportswriters...

with nearly identical stats, the winner should have gotten the award...

the very essence of an MVP is this... the answer to this question:
With everything on the line, who would you want to start game 7 in the Stanley Cup finals? The answer is simple, the guy who is going to win.

The Most Valuable Player, is the guy who contributed the most to his team's success. Anaheim didn't succeed, they failed. They lost game 7... Shut out by Brodeur. Success is a prerequisite of this award. In any playoffs in any sport, the winner is the only one who succeeds.

sorry tingkai, you may be a Gigure fanboy, you may be an underdog rooter, or a NJ hater, I'm not sure... the only thing I know is that you're wrong... and all the dumbass sportswriters that voted Gigure are wrong.

	10-06-2003 12:30									#425
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quote: The Most Valuable Player, is the guy who contributed the most to his team's success. Anaheim didn't succeed, they failed. They lost game 7... Shut out by Brodeur. Success is a prerequisite of this award. In any playoffs in any sport, the winner is the only one who succeeds.

Now, 6 shutouts by a rookie playing goalie playing on Anaheim, tying the previous shutout record?

The team that knocked off Detroit and Dallas, the two best teams in the west this season?

Give the man the MVP. Brodeur helped his team, but not as much as Giguere boosted the Mighty Ducks. No Giguere, and we see Detroit make the finals. No Brodeur, and New Jersey makes the Conference final in the East.

	10-06-2003 14:07									#426
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quote: Originally posted by Sava The Most Valuable Player, is the guy who contributed the most to his team's success. Anaheim didn't succeed, they failed. They lost game 7... Shut out by Brodeur. Success is a prerequisite of this award. In any playoffs in any sport, the winner is the only one who succeeds.

You do realise that the Conn Smythe is for the most valuable player in the PLAYOFFS, not the final game.

That means you look at what a player achieved throughout the playoffs, not whether they won or lost the final game.

	10-06-2003 20:39									#427
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quote: If Brodeur had not played, could the Devils have won?

As someone who watches the Devils a lot, let me say... NO WAY! Without Brodeur, the Devils have troubles beating Tampa and, at the very least, lose to Ottawa in 6.

Oh, and btw, you seem to say Brodeur is about the system and Giguere is out there by himself... you do know that Anaheim played GREAT trapping defense during the whole playoffs until they got to Jersey? The defense was involved in Giguere's great run too.

quote: Now, 6 shutouts by a rookie playing goalie playing on Anaheim, tying the previous shutout record?

Which was supplanted by Brodeur's 7th shutout .

I am of the opinion that you should ALWAYS give the MVP of the playoffs/finals trophy to the winning team.

	10-06-2003 21:09									#428
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1. Gigure isn't a rookie, obiwan
2. I explained this before, the MVP goes to the player that contributed most to his team's success... Anaheim failed, New Jersey succeeded.
3. Question: If a player scores 40 goals in 6 playoff games, but his team loses and gets knocked out... and nobody else in the playoffs scores more than 10 goals, even the winner of the Cup, do you give the 40 goal scorer the Conn Smythe?

Individual success is moot in the playoffs. If you don't take home the Cup, you are a loser. And that's the NHL. 16 teams in the playoffs. 15 fail, 1 succeeds. The MVP is the player who contributes most to that 1 success. In this case, Brodeur.

	11-06-2003 03:19									#429
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quote: 1. Gigure isn't a rookie, obiwan

Rookie playoff goalie.

quote: team's success... Anaheim failed, New Jersey succeeded.

Success does not equate with winning the stanley cup. Your argument would not allow for any non-stanley cup winner to receive the MVP.

Look at the list for New Jersey. Three MVP candidates. No Langenbrunner, and the Devils do not beat Tampa Bay.

Now, there is no other candidate from the Mighty Ducks for MVP, other than Giguere, so I am more inclined to say that Giguere is more valuable to his team than Brodeur.

He's the better goalie this playoff as well. Brodeur's lucky he had a better team in front of him.

quote: even the winner of the Cup, do you give the 40 goal scorer the Conn Smythe?

If they make the Stanley cup finals, than yes. 40 goals is absolutely remarkable.

	11-06-2003 03:31									#430
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quote: If they make the Stanley cup finals, than yes. 40 goals is absolutely remarkable.

He said 6 games... so they don't .

	11-06-2003 03:42									#431
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quote: Originally posted by Sava Individual success is moot in the playoffs. If you don't take home the Cup, you are a loser. And that's the NHL. 16 teams in the playoffs. 15 fail, 1 succeeds. The MVP is the player who contributes most to that 1 success. In this case, Brodeur.

Not for an MVP trophy it isn't, nowhere does it say that the MVP has to come from the winning team.

Giguere got it because he had over 160 OT minutes without a goal.

Figure that out, that is almost an extra 3 games that he pitched shutouts in, when one goal is all it takes to end the game.

I'm sure, all things considered, that Giguere would give up the Conn Smythe for the Stanley Cup.

ACK!

	11-06-2003 03:47									#432
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WOOOO... new Devils Avatar .

Though I still think Marty should have gotten the trophy. Can you believe he STILL hasn't won an individual award? Though that'll change with the Vezina and (maybe) the Hart this year .

	11-06-2003 03:47									#433
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quote: He said 6 games... so they don't

If a player scores 40 goals in 6 games, and his team still loses 4 of those games, how likely is said team going to make the playoffs?

	11-06-2003 03:48									#434
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quote: If a player scores 40 goals in 6 games, and his team still loses 4 of those games, how likely is said team going to make the playoffs?

Well that wasn't the question . Maybe the leading scorer is also the goalie, who knows!

	11-06-2003 04:41									#435
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If you counted on your fingers all the games that Giguere stole during these playoffs... well, you'd better be a Hindu divinity, 'cause you'd run out of fingers otherwise.

The same can NOT be said about Brodeur. It has become very politically correct to say that the Ducks played great hockey, had a smothering defense, blah blah blah. Horseshit. They played competant hockey, yes. But they did not play good enough to come within 60 minutes of winning the Stanley Cup, no way, no how.

Look at Detroit last year. Hasek had 6 shutouts, at that time a record. But very, very, very few people advanced his name for MVP. Why? Because he never stole a game. All 16 Detroit wins were games that they should have won. There may have been 2 or 3, tops, that Anaheim should have won. They were outplayed by every opponent, and it was totally Giguere who got them 15 wins.

Imagine that Curtis Joseph, a pretty good goalie who played well in the first round, played for Anaheim. Would they have swept Detroit? No. Would they have won the first round at all? No. Would they have won a single game? Probably not.

If Cujo were on the Devils? They still easily make the conference finals, and my money would still be on them to win the East.


Brodeur is a terrific goalie, and will probably end his career owning most of the records that Patrick Roy has claimed over the past few seasons. The fact that he has yet to win a Vezina is astounding. But, that said, he did not carry his team to the Cup, not even close. He played very well, and all things being equal, is a superior goalie to Giguere. But over the past two months, Giguere was the best player in the world, in a league all his own.

	11-06-2003 04:57									#436
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quote: It has become very politically correct to say that the Ducks played great hockey, had a smothering defense, blah blah blah.

No, it's been more PC to say Giguere was a God, and his team was simply 'competant'. His team played WELL! They had simply a great defense! The trap worked wonders for that team. They were a very quality team!

quote: They were outplayed by every opponent, and it was totally Giguere who got them 15 wins.

You are kidding me, right? Did you even watch the Western Conference Finals or the Dallas series? The Ducks outplayed both teams (especially Minnesota).

Giguere may have been the best player, but to basically say that his team was passable is a total disservice to how well his team played for him.

	11-06-2003 05:07									#437
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I think it was a very close call between the two. In the end, I think I would've also picked Giguere.

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui WOOOO... new Devils Avatar .

Nice one.

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Though I still think Marty should have gotten the trophy. Can you believe he STILL hasn't won an individual award? Though that'll change with the Vezina and (maybe) the Hart this year .

Maybe the selection was made because they already know that Brodeur has won one of those this year...