07-04-2003 12:44									#1
	Impossible Game! Enter the AD-FREE zone

Comments on Galactic Civillizations

I got to try this out on my friend's computer! He bought it sometime ago and let me play it out. The game is superb except for a few things.

1. The game is rigged.
2. I thought that the designers of Galactic Civillizations said that they were going to avoid giving the AI free handouts and freebies.

Why I think the game is rigged.....

1. The alien civillizations are ever so often finding something in the dusts of their plains.

(A) The Altarans got a Precursor Ranger not once but twice early on in the game!

(B) The Arceans got a whole fleet of Precursor corvettes!

(C) Somewhere in the middle of the game, the Torians found an ancient device that turned their planet from a planet class 7 to a planet class 42! Right, it went up 35 levels.

(D) Not long after that, the Altarans found an ancient device that enchanced their civillization in many ways. A message appeared saying that if I did not destroy the Altarans, my civillization would end up enslaved or destroyed by them!

Note: The Altarans are allied with the Torians in the game I was playing. If I had declared war on the Altarans, I would have ended up fighting the Torians as well.

Freebies and free handouts are one thing but this is just ridiculous! What are they going to get next? Summon Dreadlords???!!!

This never happens to the player.

(E) Everytime election time rounds the corner, the morale of the planets begin dropping in large amounts and next you know, your star systems start joining another civillization. Not to mention you lose the election. I hate the Independent League. They keep stealing my star systems.

(F) Planets that defect to you have a morale of 1 while planets that defect to other civs have a morale of 100! Gee ... I wonder why?

I am playing this at just the beginner level and am already facing so much trouble, not from the other civs but the handouts and bonuses they get just for being themselves!

Freebies and handouts if given should make the game interesting, not affect the outcome of the game itself to that degree! To make it fair, the player should get some of the freebies themselves.

(F) The Political Capital that I built at Sol disappeared two turns after I built it and with it, my influence bonuses.

	07-04-2003 12:58									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Freebies and free handouts are one thing but this is just ridiculous! What are they going to get next? Summon Dreadlords???!!!

I think that was just one freaky gamne you had, i've played and finished four games now.
I've had
A: twice in the same game, one time to me, one time for an AI.
B: I got it once, the AI maybe once or twice.
C: Never had that.
D: Only once, the AI that got it was very weak, and a few dozen turns later it was still weak enough to be killed.
E: I almost never have problems with elections, I've had the IL pop up only once, and they weren't a big nuisance to me. Keep your pop happy, either by moving some population away, building social projects, or lowering your tax rate. Try to keep morale above 40. You could also increase propaganda spending to increase morale.
F: Morale has absolutely NOTHING to do with defecting to a major AI, it's all about influence. Morale only affects defection to the IL.
G: dunno how that could happen..

	07-04-2003 13:02									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: (C) Somewhere in the middle of the game, the Torians found an ancient device that turned their planet from a planet class 7 to a planet class 42! Right, it went up 35 levels.

Are you sure it was a Torian planet before the event happened? I've never seen the AI colonize anything less then 15. So i think they just got to the planet before you could.

	07-04-2003 13:23									#4
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

It was a planet in the Torian star system. I was very sure that none of the planets had a class value of anything above 20 when the Torians colonize that system (Markus system).

On the other hand, the Fundamentalists who I saved earlier on at the beginning of the game from being wiped out by the Torians were beating up all the other galactic powers in the game except me. They traded with me only and no one else. Relations between the Terrans and the Fundamentalists were Close. Last I checked their military might - it had a value of 2860! All the rest of the galactic civs did not even have a combine total of five hundred. They wiped out the Drengins, the Yor and are now closing in on the Torians and the Altarans. The Arceans had been eliminated by the Altaran-Torian Alliance. The I-League is in deep trouble as well.

The Fundamentalists are in the process of constructing Terror Stars! Their tech is way ahead of anyone else including mine! They are the wealthiest civ in the Galaxy

Somebody, help me!

Lifeguard .....

Status: Peace with everyone.

	07-04-2003 13:46									#5
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I wouldn't worry about the fundamentalists if i were you, let them wipe out your opponents and keep your relations with them close by trading with them.

	07-04-2003 19:49									#6
	Got spare money?

You'll notice that the "free ships" tend to come to the people behind militarily. I had one game where I was the one that got two free Rangers.

	07-04-2003 19:57									#7
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Didn't I read a post somewhere from the folks who make GalCiv saying that random events were generally favorable to those who were behind, and in the ways they were behind? I.E. military laggards getting precursor ships, economic booms for weak economies, and bad things happeneing to those in the lead?

I swear I read that somewhere. It would explain the above sequences of events.

	07-04-2003 20:27									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Please note that the issue of more powerfull random events at lower levels was addressed with the first patch.

None of these have happened in either the 3 games I have played so far (on beginner level, all the latest patches). I personally have gotten Economic Boom a couple times in the same game and found the Ranger ship myself. Had one of the AI's get the planet PQ explosion one. Luckily I was within a parsec of the event and it upgraded many of my own planets as well. Was pretty sweet!

	07-04-2003 22:16									#9
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Are you sure it was a Torian planet before the event happened? I've never seen the AI colonize anything less then 15. So i think they just got to the planet before you could.

I played a game last night where my influence was sweeping the AI off the map. The AI civ, it was either the Torians or the Altarians, colonized a couple of class 10 planets that almost immediately flipped to me. I picked up two star systems at class 12 that had extremely low morale, no habitat improvements left, and were costing me a fortune in upkeep. I couldn't give them away because they'd go right back to me.

	07-04-2003 22:24									#10
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: I couldn't give them away because they'd go right back to me.

I had something similar with the Torians, their planets were quite good though (3 20+ planets). But i found that giving the planets back to them at 500/turn for a few dozen turns would be a lot more profitable, since the planet would come back to me anyway.

	08-04-2003 06:28									#11
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Fried-Psitalon Didn't I read a post somewhere from the folks who make GalCiv saying that random events were generally favorable to those who were behind, and in the ways they were behind? I.E. military laggards getting precursor ships, economic booms for weak economies, and bad things happeneing to those in the lead? I swear I read that somewhere. It would explain the above sequences of events.

Unfortunately, those handouts they gave to the other civs are going to kill me. Since I have less than a military value of 100, my guess is that those handouts were there to counterbalance the Fundamentalist war machine which is overrunning the entire galaxy. I had already lost about ten star systems to the I-League through defection. The way the game tries to balance itself is ridiculous.



I was hoping to win through becoming the first civilization to evolve to the next level. This game is screwed. On the other hand, I hadn't fought a single battle against the other civs from the beginning of the game until now. Universal peace. I had to admit that I was secretly hoping that the Fundamentalists would wipe them out or hinder them. I can't believe that a minor race is giving so much trouble to the entire galaxy. Not to mention collapsing all the so-called galactic powers.

	08-04-2003 06:53									#12
	Got spare money?

Why I think Galactic Civ has bugs or is flawed .....

Last I checked:

Wealth: The 2nd wealthiest civ in the entire galaxy.
Military: 98.
Science: Okay.

The game rates me like this: The general consensus is that my civ is the most powerful civ in the galaxy. Why? I don't even have a single Dreadnaught, Battleship or Battletransport. All I have for defence are some old-fashioned BattleAxes in a few star systems. Even the Altarans and Torians had Battleships and Battletranports. The Fundamentalists had at least ten Dreadnaughts, ten Transports and ten Battleships per star system. I think they had around ten to twenty star systems under their control.

Even the I-League has more star systems under its control than me. So, what gives? What makes all the other civs fear my poor civ? They give tribute to me every so often. I wonder why.

I hope that someone can clear this up for me.

Just to show you guys the Impossible Game, I would like to upload the saved game to Apolyton so you guys can see for yourselves. Just how do you upload the game?

Anybody?

	08-04-2003 07:21									#13
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Lemmy quote: Freebies and free handouts are one thing but this is just ridiculous! What are they going to get next? Summon Dreadlords???!!! I think that was just one freaky gamne you had, i've played and finished four games now. I've had A: twice in the same game, one time to me, one time for an AI. B: I got it once, the AI maybe once or twice. C: Never had that. D: Only once, the AI that got it was very weak, and a few dozen turns later it was still weak enough to be killed. E: I almost never have problems with elections, I've had the IL pop up only once, and they weren't a big nuisance to me. Keep your pop happy, either by moving some population away, building social projects, or lowering your tax rate. Try to keep morale above 40. You could also increase propaganda spending to increase morale. F: Morale has absolutely NOTHING to do with defecting to a major AI, it's all about influence. Morale only affects defection to the IL. G: dunno how that could happen..

Lucky you. The Altarans are quite a powerful force in my game. I do use propaganda spending to keep it above 40 otherwise I would have lost every election already.

If I eliminate the I-League from the game, would my star systems stop defecting? By the way, what would happen if the Fundamentalists wiped out all the rest of the UUP except for me? This is likely because the message "The Torians are slowly being destroyed by the Fundamentalists. They would have to hope for mercy from their enemies or be eliminated" keeps appearing every so often. I haven't seen them lost a single star system so I don't know what is actually going on.

	08-04-2003 08:00									#14
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

civer3,

Your systems will only defect to the I-League if they're morale is too low for a couple turns. Sounds like you need to get your morale up. Need to get them around 50% or better.

Why are you most powerfull yet you have a lesser military? You seem to think that military might is all there is. There is *much* more to it then that. Perhaps you are the technological giant and they all look up to you in awe.

In my current game I have 28% of the galactic population but I am doing 62% of to the Tech research. I also have about 60% Culture dominance and growing. I'm sure I'll win by either of these.

My military isn't bad, around 190 or so. Mainly thanks to two small wars that forced me to concentrate on military for a while. Basically I have enough to take down any attack. I have military and cultural starbases 1-2 sectors out from my core that can intercept any incoming attacks, giving me plenty of time to turn all my military production to the best ships available. I have sensor drones in sectors without starbases so I can know ahead of time of any attack fleet coming my way.

Since I am in the tech lead, I can build the best ships if I so choose. Since my Economy is number one in the galaxy, I can quickly pump out ships if the time arises. The AI obviously knows this and doesn't mess with me. Even the Drengin give me tribute after threatening me most of the early and mid game. Gotta love that.

I think you need to do a few things:
1) Make sure you have the latest patches
2) Start a new game
3) Keep your morale up and you systems won't defect.
4) Balance is the key but concentrate on your victory goal, whatever that is.
5) You don't need a kick butt military early on most games but you need enough to defend yourself and do some damage to make the AI respect you (similar to Civ 3 tactics)
6) Turn the AI down a tad so they aren't so tough.

But in all, it really depends on your style of play, but one this is for certain: you can't be one dimensional in GalCiv.

Good luck.

	08-04-2003 13:32									#15
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Lucky you.

Nah, that seems to be the standard, i'd say you were the lucky one to have all those things in your first game.

Look at your stats page under your civs menu to see how well you're doing in all of the seperate fields, you may be 2nd or 3rd in most of them, but still the most powerfull civ on avg. It isn't just military or wealth that matters, there are about 6 or 7 different rankings.

quote: Just to show you guys the Impossible Game, I would like to upload the saved game to Apolyton so you guys can see for yourselves. Just how do you upload the game?

Please do
You can upload it as an attachment in the reply menu, or you can upload it here to apolyton using the upload link at the top of the screen, and link to it from your post

quote: By the way, what would happen if the Fundamentalists wiped out all the rest of the UUP except for me?

You'd be the winner i think, though it is somewhat strange ifs there is a minor civ that is stronger then you.

	08-04-2003 23:00									#16
	Increase Your PM Length

I don't understand. I don't consider myself an especially skilled strategic player, but I've played two games to completion thus far, and won both. I was even able to survive the Draginol event through some drastic means and won that game. Granted, I was playing with some easy AIs, but that's the beauty of the game--you can fine tune the difficulty as much as you want to accomodate your skill.

	08-04-2003 23:05									#17
	Inflate your Upload Space

"I am playing this at just the beginner level "

Use the latest patch, up the difficultly level. You'll see.

	09-04-2003 09:09									#18
	Uploaded game. Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I have uploaded the game. I am at peace with every civ in the galaxy. I hate those pirates and the Belua. They keep destroying my starbases.

Attachment: previousautosave.sav
This has been downloaded 0 time(s).

	09-04-2003 09:24									#19
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by bonscott civer3, Your systems will only defect to the I-League if they're morale is too low for a couple turns. Sounds like you need to get your morale up. Need to get them around 50% or better. Why are you most powerfull yet you have a lesser military? You seem to think that military might is all there is. There is *much* more to it then that. Perhaps you are the technological giant and they all look up to you in awe. In my current game I have 28% of the galactic population but I am doing 62% of to the Tech research. I also have about 60% Culture dominance and growing. I'm sure I'll win by either of these. My military isn't bad, around 190 or so. Mainly thanks to two small wars that forced me to concentrate on military for a while. Basically I have enough to take down any attack. I have military and cultural starbases 1-2 sectors out from my core that can intercept any incoming attacks, giving me plenty of time to turn all my military production to the best ships available. I have sensor drones in sectors without starbases so I can know ahead of time of any attack fleet coming my way. Since I am in the tech lead, I can build the best ships if I so choose. Since my Economy is number one in the galaxy, I can quickly pump out ships if the time arises. The AI obviously knows this and doesn't mess with me. Even the Drengin give me tribute after threatening me most of the early and mid game. Gotta love that. I think you need to do a few things: 1) Make sure you have the latest patches 2) Start a new game 3) Keep your morale up and you systems won't defect. 4) Balance is the key but concentrate on your victory goal, whatever that is. 5) You don't need a kick butt military early on most games but you need enough to defend yourself and do some damage to make the AI respect you (similar to Civ 3 tactics) 6) Turn the AI down a tad so they aren't so tough. But in all, it really depends on your style of play, but one this is for certain: you can't be one dimensional in GalCiv. Good luck.

My military value had just dropped to 48 as I continued. Seems strange though that every civ is very polite to me. My tech was behind everyone in the beginning. Didn't know how to play at the start.

Tech value: 98.

Only started to increase the pace after I discovered how far behind I was with respect to the other civs.

Economics: I was making a loss. Loosing 328 bc per turn.

Still they come and give me tribute every once in a while even though I never ask for any.



Comments, anyone? Let me know if the saved game I uploaded doesn't work.

	11-04-2003 00:29									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I am a free-ship collector. For some reason my Hero is just out there jumpstarting ships left and right - I get BattleAxes, Corvettes, Defenders, everything!

If you've only played one game and you are concerned about balance with the AI, you need to play again. Each game I've played has had radically different random events - from discovery and freebies to I-League massive culture flipping 1/2 of my systems. And damn those insane bugs that always seem to attack my weakest system when I've only got BattleAxes at Def 5 to defend against their Att 42. I usually end up giving away all my techs to buy ships from other civs to shore up my defenses.

Yeah, try that - if your military sucks but your tech is high - trade tech for ships - I only build about half of my own ships - the rest I buy from the other guys.

	12-04-2003 16:15									#21
	Suffering from ads?

About the free ships, using the survey ship relentlessly gives you a lot of them too.

About the events, with 1.01, you can spend one of your starting points on "Luck". It should help.

It really seems your game is 'strange'. Too much bad karma.

But, hey, rejoice! You didn't meet Draginol! Those having will understand me...
BRAD, YOU'RE EVIL !!!

	14-04-2003 11:20									#22
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by vishniac About the free ships, using the survey ship relentlessly gives you a lot of them too. About the events, with 1.01, you can spend one of your starting points on "Luck". It should help. It really seems your game is 'strange'. Too much bad karma. But, hey, rejoice! You didn't meet Draginol! Those having will understand me... BRAD, YOU'RE EVIL !!!

Who is Draginol? You mean that there is a new score known as the Luck score?

	14-04-2003 18:33									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

You really need the patchs. You can completely customize your starting abilities including spending a single point in "luck". Plus the patches address many of the issues you bring up.

Patch it, start a new game, your're good to go!