07-04-2003 12:50									#1
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Hi,

I would like to know your experience/strategy about your first revolution.

Do you wait until republic or you switch to monarchy?

When and why exactly do you do this?

I am asking this, because I am always undesided. I don't know if I should research republic or monarchy first. Are my scientists work better when I switch to republic ASAP or it is too early?

Hoping for a nice discussion and advices

cheers

cumi

	07-04-2003 16:03									#2
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In most games, I'll head for Republic about as quickly as I can. I generally maintain a relatively small military in the early game, so the extra gold from Republic vastly outweighs the free unit support and military police advantages of Despotism. (And even when I build up a good-sized military for early conquest, I want them out conquering by that stage of the game, not sitting around as military police.)

There is, however, a notable exception. If I'm playing a religious civ with a strong ancient UU (e.g. Egypt or the Celts), I'm likely to head for Monarchy first so I can get a non-despotic golden age earlier. With Egypt, I'll probably research and switch to Republic fairly quickly during my golden age, but with the Celts, I'll likely be spending too much of my gold upgrading warriors to Gallic Swordsmen to make the switch very quickly.

Nathan

	07-04-2003 16:34									#3
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For religious civs I'll quite happily go for whichever gets researched first, and move between them as needed.

For non-religious civs I tend to stick in despotism until republic is an improvement. My transition criteria is this: Add up the number of population points in my civ (as an estimate of how many extra gold per turn I'll get). Multiply by 0.9 (probably need to have luxury slider at 10%). Take away the number of troops (or the number supported for free, whichever is relevant). If greater than zero, its time to change, unless there is a compelling reason not to (a few turns away from completing a wonder for instance, or in the middle of a long war).

	07-04-2003 16:34									#4
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In most games, I switch to Republic asap (as to profit from my GA when I build the Colossus/Pyramids/GLighthouse/GLibrary sequence), but only after I completed my last Wonder. I then disband all my 'police warriors' and build a new military from scratch, IF I need it. I usually have 1-2 groups of Horsemen strategically located which I upgdrade then to Knights and Cavalry. Since I have 1 Worker/city, my military looks rather impressive, even if it's not.

	07-04-2003 18:41									#5
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I tend to use Monachy a lot, especially if playing a religious civ, so that I can warmonger.

Republic is great if you want to build up your empire peacefully. It does NOT do well if you have a large army and intend to use it.

-Arrian

	07-04-2003 19:08									#6
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I usually go for Republic and stick with that until late medieval. Then I switch to Democracy and build during the early Industrial. Once I have Universal Suffrage and police stations I can usually manage to stay in Democracy for the late game even if fighting some wars.

	07-04-2003 19:38									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian I tend to use Monachy a lot, especially if playing a religious civ, so that I can warmonger. Republic is great if you want to build up your empire peacefully. It does NOT do well if you have a large army and intend to use it.

Monarchy is suited for long, drawn-out slugfests between civs with comparable technology. Republic is suited for building a technological advantage and, if you succeed, demolishing opponents in just a few turns with fast-movers (especially cavalry and modern armor), at least if the amount of land per civ isn't too high.

The thing about Republic is that it doesn't feel like a great warmongering government because you spend such a small percentage of time and resources on war. But can be highly deceptive, because the relatively small amount of time and resources involved in warfare can be worth so much with the right tech lead and planning.

Nathan

	07-04-2003 20:30									#8
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quote: Monarchy is suited for long, drawn-out slugfests between civs with comparable technology. Republic is suited for building a technological advantage and, if you succeed, demolishing opponents in just a few turns with fast-movers (especially cavalry and modern armor), at least if the amount of land per civ isn't too high.

Absolutely.

I often do quite a bit of fighting as a republic (or democracy), but that's after I've gained a significant advantage over the opposition (numerical, technological, or preferably both).

-Arrian

	07-04-2003 21:01									#9
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If I'm going to start wars, it's monarchy. If I'm going to wait for the AI to declare war on me, then I'll use republic. Either way, I'm planning to all but wipe out the civ I'm warring with.

	07-04-2003 21:40									#10
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I agree with nbarclay -- both Republic and Democracy are very good warfighting governments if you plan properly and can whomp your opponents in just a few turns. You can have a cutting-edge military that can do a lot of damage to an enemy and force a peace very quickly if that's the route you want to take with it. Even when I'm playing Religious civs, I don't do a lot of switching because the advantages of playing Republic or Democracy almost always outweigh the drawbacks with my playing stlye (I'm a peaceful builder, and generally the only wars of aggression I'll undertake are for luxuries/resources located on the near edge of an enemy empire or to grab off any enemy cities behind my borders that stubbornly refuse to flip.)

	07-04-2003 23:18									#11
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Okay, here's my take on this. Get Monarchy ASAP, no question. Then, if you get into an early war, stay in Monarchy. Otherwise go to Republic and eventually Democracy. Stick the game ou tin Democracy, unless you go to war. If you do go to war, switch back to Monarchy. Then again, I play for peace when possible. (key word: when possible ) Avoid Communism. It's basically a neo-Despotism.

	08-04-2003 00:22									#12
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If I'm faced with a prolonged modern war, I do switch to Communism -- of course, I modified Communism so it's now actually worth being in that government for a long war. As the game came out of the box, Communism was worse than useless.

	08-04-2003 00:36									#13
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I play Emperor Level,Standard map. Sometimes I'll go back and play Monarch if the AI is kicking my butt.

I like to get to Monarchy ASAP. I'll stay in this government until half way thru the Industrial Age. Then switch to Democracy.

If I should go to war and can't get out of it early I will switch back to Monarchy. I don't use Republic or Communism I think they suck.

But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong!!

	08-04-2003 00:46									#14
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Many good replys here ... Nathan summed up the slugfest / blitzkreig consideration, and Vulture's formula is an approach I sometimes take to estimate how my civ would behave in republic, but it often depends on starting techs which in turn influence tech strategy for that era. UU also plays a role.

If religious I often beeline to Monarchy - trading it, CB, Mysticism & Polytheism for the rest of the era. Of course, when religious you can change fairly freely, so it's all not such a big question.

Commercial civs can get to writing quickly, and on to republic.

If Greek or Cathaginian, you need less defenders - and the Numidian Mercs give the best punch-per-unit for impresssing opponents with your army strength without building and maintaining so large an army. Republic suits these Civs well for peaceful building.

	08-04-2003 08:44									#15
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Everything depends on how many lux I can swipe for myself, an idea that drives my REX. If I get 4 or more, then I will switch to a Republic ASAP, and never go back to Monarchy again (I find war in a Republic possible in this situation with my difficulty levels). If I have fewer than 4 lux I will stay as Monarchy until I get Democracy, at the very least.

	08-04-2003 09:21									#16
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quote: I usually go for Republic and stick with that until late medieval. Then I switch to Democracy and build during the early Industrial. Once I have Universal Suffrage and police stations I can usually manage to stay in Democracy for the late game even if fighting some wars.

I like this strategy. Republic then Democracy. Skip Monarchy altogether - it's a waste of time. Even when fighting wars. One caveat though - like Whereitsat mentioned, you'll need some luxuries. Minimum of two or three in my opinion. If you want to warmonger, switch to republic then beeline to Military Tradition. Works like a charm.

	08-04-2003 11:51									#17
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Thank you for the nice posts. While reading them, I remembered to my latest game, where something happened, for what I have no explanation:

I was playing France on Regent. I think I was in Republic. An opponent civ declared war on me and I thought I am going to have problems with disorders. But, the opposite thing heappened. I checked my cities, and there were more content faces and less unhappy. How can this be??? In some cities they began to celebrate WLTKD. Has anybody explanation for this?

I didn't wantet to have a long lasted war. I wasn't really prepared and I had another plans. So I signed a peace very quickly (but without giving anything extra). And at the moment, when I signed the peace, there was a civil disorder in most of my citites.

Do the France doesn't like peace, or what? Please post any explanations!!!!

cumi

	08-04-2003 18:45									#18
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When in Republic or Democracy, if your civ is attacked by another, there is a brief period of "rally 'round the flag" when actually get a happiness boost. It doesn't last long, though.

If you make peace, you revert back to "normal" happiness levels.

-Arrian

	08-04-2003 20:04									#19
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Thanx Arrian, I thougth nomething like that is behind that . Do you have some more precise "information" about this behavior of my democratic people ?

	09-04-2003 03:04									#20
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I prefer to go with Monarchy and stick with it the whole game, but I like playing as the Aztecs. Monarchy is their best government, followed by probable Despotism. I haven't tried Communism on them yet, but I learned the hard way that Republic/Democracy is NOT the way to go with the Aztecs.

	09-04-2003 03:51									#21
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quote: From Civilization Fanatics' Forums > CIVILIZATION III > Civ3 - Creation & Customization > Suggested EXISTING rule edits to improve realism or gameplay I know I'm not the only one disturbed by the fact that you can build tanks 1450 AD, and other things like that. I think that this is largely because EVERY civ becomes a republic at the end of the ancient era. Is this realistic? If you don't count the republic of Rome, which don't compare to a modern republic, IMO, did any country become a republic earlier than the late middle ages? As this is rethorical questions, my answer is: No! The middle ages is the "Age of Kingdoms". Monarchies all around. So my solution to this was to move The Republic to the place of Democracy in the late middle ages, and move Democracy to the start of the industrial era. As everyone has monarchy, research is slower, and you push the tanks back a couple of hundred years. You might say this makes a more linear game, but, if you play the builder style, as I do, then the game already is linear, as in the ordinary game, everyone goes republic.

(He had moved Democracy to after Sanitation)
For myself, I put it as a third optional advance after Nationalism.

	09-04-2003 06:35									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Jaybe (He had moved Democracy to after Sanitation) For myself, I put it as a third optional advance after Nationalism.

I like this suggestion

	09-04-2003 15:54									#23
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As I'm always playing religious civs heading for Monarchy first. If I want some war I stay a bit longer in monarchy else I switch then pretty quick to Republic.

Always switching to democracy when I researched that.

	09-04-2003 17:35									#24
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My style is militaristic until I dominate my land mass.
I remain a despot until I get Democracy, then switch.
This might not work for less aggressive strategies.

	09-04-2003 18:45									#25
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I think a big part of this depends on what sort of game you set up. I always play huge worlds with lots of land, and even medium-sized civs in that setting have absolutely crippling corruption in anything but the more advanced forms of government -- even Republic is tough to play if you use the AU mod (I use elements of it, including a bump of Republic corruption). Playing a huge map, it's simply impossible to be successful staying in Despotism any longer than absolutely necessary because cities more than two or three places removed from your capital produce nothing even with a courthouse. With smaller maps, staying in Despotism longer becomes a more viable strategy, I think.

	09-04-2003 20:38									#26
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Unless I'm religious, it's Republic ASAP, then Democracy when I'm not in a wonder race.

With Religious civs, it's Monarchy or Republic the turn I get it, then democracy the turn I get it. If I discover monarchy before republic, I'll switch to Repulbic when I discover it.

	09-04-2003 21:01									#27
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I play huge maps... I REX, switch to Monarchy, build wonders/basic improvements/conquer, and then head for Democracy. I might put off democracy if I'm dominating the world and busy crushing my foes, but basically, it's depositism for REXing, Monarchy for expanding and growing, and Democracy for continuing growth and reaping the rewards!

I never screw around with Republic... I find it completely crippling.

Then again, I play regent level, and most of the homeys who play Monarch or higher seem to think highly of Republic.

	09-04-2003 22:20									#28
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Here is another government question.

The PTW manual gives a "prefered" and "shunned" government for all the new civs. Is this just the game designers recommended view of how to handle these civs, or...

Do civs get a special bonus for using their prefered government?
Do civs get penalized for using their shunned government?

	09-04-2003 22:35									#29
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It only matters diplomatically.

Say you're using republic. You meet a civ that has republic as their "shunned" government. Their attitude is lower towards you (probably will start out annoyed) because of your government.

The AI has absolutely no worries about using shunned governments, however, so that civ that is annoyed at you for being a republic is probably also a republic.

Which is a good thing, because if civs stuck to their preferred governments, the AI would do even worse.

-Arrian