13-04-2003 06:43									#271
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quote: Originally posted by muxec Yes your "bad plan" rating contradicts Israel. Only about 2% of students of my school want to be bandits in spite of my school in motherland.

I understand that many years passed since I visited school last time, but when I did noone wanted to be a bandit. So, I really can not imagine that half of your freinds here really think so.

quote: Asher, pay attention, Serb said, that Canada is wrong place for German people... What did he mean?

No, I meant that opposite is true also- "chto nemzu horosho- to russkomu smert", in other words- "he huy nam tam delat v etoi Kanade"

	13-04-2003 06:54									#272
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quote: Originally posted by panag hi , your bullshit has to be put in the can , "peter" is know working for a belgian (!!) tv station , ....

And? He isn't American perhaps?
Anyhow it was Sirotnikov who started talk about him.

quote: since you know somethings that other at centcom dont seem to know , care to share who was shooting with your M-16 , ......

Ok, once again, especially for you- IT WAS AMERICAN SOLDIERS WHO WOUNDED OUR DIPLOMATS.

quote: 5.56 or 223 is very common in those parts of the world since a couple decades , ..... care to share the lenght of the shell casing with us , ...... cause huh , the russians made a couple guns with 5.56 , .... and then they sold them , ..... to one saddam , .......

You do realize that NATO 5.56 is different from Warsaw pact 5.56?
Local news said it was bullets from M-16.

	13-04-2003 06:57									#273
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quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov Vagabond - I'm against you. I'm against your media.

Don't worry, it's absolutely clear that you are russofob.

quote: Excuse me, but you need not put words in my mouth. I saw the same interview on ORT. The translation was not sub-titled but rather voiced over the original soundtrack, however I also heard what he said in english. What ORT did, is show a 2 minute clip, with the voice-over translation completely NOT sticking to the original text.

We saw different interviews then.
What I saw: reporter asks question, mr. Arnet replies, then goes translation. There was no any other voices.
What you claims it's just absurd. Why Russian TV folks needed to corrupt what Arnet said? He is American renegade reporter, btw, as YOU said.

	13-04-2003 07:09									#274
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quote: Originally posted by Sikander Thanks for reminding us that Russia is the leading producer. We'll tell Putin you were the one to remind us.

Thanks.

	13-04-2003 07:38									#275
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quote: Originally posted by Sikander Thus the Russians don't want to see their crap shown up, they'd rather continue the illusion. The U.S. of course needs to show how devestatingly superior their equipment is, so like Nike they get the Michael Jacksons of militarism (the American Fighting Man) to show just how damned high those shoes can make you jump. /end Sava mode

The best tank Iraqis had was T-72 which was put in mass production 30 years ago (in 1973). And this export modification of T-72 was complete and cheap crap in comparsion with T-72 created for our domestic tank forces. Those T-72 that were exported even had no basic equipment, had decreased standard armor and sure had no dynamic defense.
So yeah, you should be proud. Latest developments of American engineers are able to defeat poorly maintained and poorly piloted 30 years old Soviet tanks.
As for me, it's not a big deal consider that you had ABSOLUTE air superiority.
If there was no embargo, and Iraq had money and let us upgrade those old export versions of T-72 (just to upgrade their old tanks, not to replace them with new models like T-80U) with modern electronics, modern ammunition and ERA, the outcome of this war might have been different. And had they installed several dozens of S-300 (to exclude American dominance in the air), then I doubt you attacked Iraq at all. But since this is hypotetical situation...
yeah, you should be damn proud, you're incredibly strong and brave when dealing with 3rd world countries.

	13-04-2003 07:52									#276
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quote: Originally posted by Sikander Who the hell makes a decision based on "why not"? You seem to be merely trying to waste everyone's time by having them consider the relationship between every country and the U.S. and U.K. Why not Germany? Why not the Holy Roman Empire? Why not Tibet? The false assumption here is that you seem to think that there was going to be a war between the U.S. and someone, and it came down to a debate about who we were going to war with, as opposed to whether we were going to war with anyone. This war is about a lot of things, but the critical reason why we are attacking Iraq IMO is that they violated the cease fire agreement early and often, for a dozen years. During that same time Saddam managed to also create an artificial humanitarian crisis amongst his internal enemies and blamed the sanctions. We don't fight offensive wars for our health, we fight offensive wars to change things. Why would a powerful alliance allow a weakling to break all the agreements that were paid for with so much blood? The answer is that they don't allow it, or at least the powerful countries in that alliance don't allow it.

I see no oil factor, among your justifications of this war.
Could you (or anybody else) please answer at least some of those questions?

"1. Is it not true that the reason we did not bomb the Soviet Union at the height of the Cold War was because we knew they could retaliate?

2. Is it not also true that we are willing to bomb Iraq now because we know it cannot retaliate- which just confirms that there is no real threat?

3. Is it not true that those who argue that even with inspections we cannot be sure that Hussein might be hiding weapons, at the same time imply that we can be more sure that weapons exist in the absence of inspections?

4. Is it not true that the UN’s International Atomic Energy Agency was able to complete its yearly verification mission to Iraq just this year with Iraqi cooperation?

5. Is it not true that the intelligence community has been unable to develop a case tying Iraq to global terrorism at all, much less the attacks on the United States last year? Does anyone remember that 15 of the 19 hijackers came from Saudi Arabia and that none came from Iraq?

6. Was former CIA counter-terrorism chief Vincent Cannistraro wrong when he recently said there is no confirmed evidence of Iraq’s links to terrorism?

7. Is it not true that the CIA has concluded there is no evidence that a Prague meeting between 9/11 hijacker Atta and Iraqi intelligence took place?

8. Is it not true that northern Iraq, where the administration claimed al-Qaeda were hiding out, is in the control of our "allies," the Kurds?

9. Is it not true that the vast majority of al-Qaeda leaders who escaped appear to have safely made their way to Pakistan, another of our so-called allies?

10. Has anyone noticed that Afghanistan is rapidly sinking into total chaos, with bombings and assassinations becoming daily occurrences; and that according to a recent UN report the al-Qaeda "is, by all accounts, alive and well and poised to strike again, how, when, and where it chooses"?

11. Why are we taking precious military and intelligence resources away from tracking down those who did attack the United States- and who may again attack the United States- and using them to invade countries that have not attacked the United States?

12. Would an attack on Iraq not just confirm the Arab world's worst suspicions about the US, and isn't this what bin Laden wanted?

13. How can Hussein be compared to Hitler when he has no navy or air force, and now has an army 1/5 the size of twelve years ago, which even then proved totally inept at defending the country?

14. Is it not true that the constitutional power to declare war is exclusively that of the Congress? Should presidents, contrary to the Constitution, allow Congress to concur only when pressured by public opinion? Are presidents permitted to rely on the UN for permission to go to war?

15. Are you aware of a Pentagon report studying charges that thousands of Kurds in one village were gassed by the Iraqis, which found no conclusive evidence that Iraq was responsible, that Iran occupied the very city involved, and that evidence indicated the type of gas used was more likely controlled by Iran not Iraq?

16. Is it not true that anywhere between 100,000 and 300,000 US soldiers have suffered from Persian Gulf War syndrome from the first Gulf War, and that thousands may have died?

17. Are we prepared for possibly thousands of American casualties in a war against a country that does not have the capacity to attack the United States?

18. Are we willing to bear the economic burden of a 100 billion dollar war against Iraq, with oil prices expected to skyrocket and further rattle an already shaky American economy? How about an estimated 30 years occupation of Iraq that some have deemed necessary to "build democracy" there?

19. Iraq’s alleged violations of UN resolutions are given as reason to initiate an attack, yet is it not true that hundreds of UN Resolutions have been ignored by various countries without penalty?

20. Did former President Bush not cite the UN Resolution of 1990 as the reason he could not march into Baghdad, while supporters of a new attack assert that it is the very reason we can march into Baghdad?

21. Is it not true that, contrary to current claims, the no-fly zones were set up by Britain and the United States without specific approval from the United Nations?

22. If we claim membership in the international community and conform to its rules only when it pleases us, does this not serve to undermine our position, directing animosity toward us by both friend and foe?

23. How can our declared goal of bringing democracy to Iraq be believable when we prop up dictators throughout the Middle East and support military tyrants like Musharaf in Pakistan, who overthrew a democratically-elected president?

24. Are you familiar with the 1994 Senate Hearings that revealed the U.S. knowingly supplied chemical and biological materials to Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war and as late as 1992- including after the alleged Iraqi gas attack on a Kurdish village?

25. Did we not assist Saddam Hussein’s rise to power by supporting and encouraging his invasion of Iran? Is it honest to criticize Saddam now for his invasion of Iran, which at the time we actively supported?

26. Is it not true that preventive war is synonymous with an act of aggression, and has never been considered a moral or legitimate US policy?

27. Why do the oil company executives strongly support this war if oil is not the real reason we plan to take over Iraq?

28. Why is it that those who never wore a uniform and are confident that they won’t have to personally fight this war are more anxious for this war than our generals?

29. What is the moral argument for attacking a nation that has not initiated aggression against us, and could not if it wanted?

30. Where does the Constitution grant us permission to wage war for any reason other than self-defense?

31. Is it not true that a war against Iraq rejects the sentiments of the time-honored Treaty of Westphalia, nearly 400 years ago, that countries should never go into another for the purpose of regime change?

32. Is it not true that the more civilized a society is, the less likely disagreements will be settled by war?

33. Is it not true that since World War II Congress has not declared war and- not coincidentally- we have not since then had a clear-cut victory?

34. Is it not true that Pakistan, especially through its intelligence services, was an active supporter and key organizer of the Taliban?

35. Why don't those who want war bring a formal declaration of war resolution to the floor of Congress? "

http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/c...02/cr091002.htm

	13-04-2003 21:43									#277
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quote: Originally posted by Serb And? He isn't American perhaps? Anyhow it was Sirotnikov who started talk about him. Ok, once again, especially for you- IT WAS AMERICAN SOLDIERS WHO WOUNDED OUR DIPLOMATS. You do realize that NATO 5.56 is different from Warsaw pact 5.56? Local news said it was bullets from M-16.

hi ,

from the baltic sea to the sea of japan , russians make 5.56 with many different types of case lenghts , ... the US ARMY has not used 5.56 in Iraq so far , they are using .223 , the difference , the bottem of the shellcases , ......

peter arnet is an american , aldo , they way it seems now , ..... that could be revoked , ....

have a nice day

	14-04-2003 01:11									#278
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I'm sorry, Serb, but the recent revelation of Russian support of Saddam in viloation of UN sanctions, plus its support of France against the US in obtaining the second resolution, means our growing good relations will indefinitely be put on hold.

I think Putin is playing a dangerous game. What I see developing is a set of alliances not unlike those that lead up to and caused WWI. France, Germany and Russia (and its minor allies) on one side. The US, UK, Spain and Italy on the other, with its group of minor allies.

Blair is trying to undo this. But with the recent meeting of Putin, Chirac and Schroeder, it appears that the new AXIS is cementing their anti-Coalition alliance.

	15-04-2003 03:49									#279
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quote: Originally posted by Ned I'm sorry, Serb, but the recent revelation of Russian support of Saddam in viloation of UN sanctions, plus its support of France against the US in obtaining the second resolution, means our growing good relations will indefinitely be put on hold. I think Putin is playing a dangerous game. What I see developing is a set of alliances not unlike those that lead up to and caused WWI. France, Germany and Russia (and its minor allies) on one side. The US, UK, Spain and Italy on the other, with its group of minor allies. Blair is trying to undo this. But with the recent meeting of Putin, Chirac and Schroeder, it appears that the new AXIS is cementing their anti-Coalition alliance.

hi ,

dont forget to talk about the "intel" they gave the man , .....

have a nice day

	18-04-2003 10:16									#280
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quote: Originally posted by panag hi , from the baltic sea to the sea of japan , russians make 5.56 with many different types of case lenghts ,

Really? Is 5.56 really so popular among Russian manufacturers Where the hell do you think we use all those 5.56? Perhaps in our AK assualt rifles that are 7.62 and 5.45 by definition?

quote: ... the US ARMY has not used 5.56 in Iraq so far ,

Yeah, sure

quote: they are using .223 , the difference , the bottem of the shellcases , ......

I always thought that M-16 has calibre 5.56 and that .222 Remington Special (.223) it's just type of ammo. So, please, go ahead and educate me.

	18-04-2003 10:38									#281
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quote: Originally posted by Ned I'm sorry, Serb, ,

I'm sorry Ned,

quote: but the recent revelation of Russian support of Saddam in viloation of UN sanctions

I have no idea what are you talking about. Claims of your leadership that Russia supplied Iraq with weapons and violated UN resolutions worth no more than calims that Iraq had NBC weapons. It's just empty claims. Iow it's just "Blahblahblah", comlains and childish whine.
Btw, I saw on TV how your marines found secret stockpile of modern AMERICAN anti-tank weapons in Iraq, but never your soldiers discovering alike stockplie containing Russian AT weapons.

quote: plus its support of France against the US in obtaining the second resolution, means our growing good relations will indefinitely be put on hold.

It's not surprising. I said half of the year ago that- "our relations will become different when first American bomb will drop to Iraq". It was abolutely obvious that Russia would never support USA in war against Iraq/in violation of UN charter/destruction of current World's security system.

quote: I think Putin is playing a dangerous game. What I see developing is a set of alliances not unlike those that lead up to and caused WWI. France, Germany and Russia (and its minor allies) on one side. The US, UK, Spain and Italy on the other, with its group of minor allies.

I believe that it's not so bright for you as you want to see. Your only true ally is your 51st state- GB. The rest of the world is VERY, VERY unhappy about American actions. Perhaps you never noticed all those anti-war demonstrations that took place all around the world? Each new war started by you will add new members to anti-American camp.

quote: Blair is trying to undo this. But with the recent meeting of Putin, Chirac and Schroeder, it appears that the new AXIS is cementing their anti-Coalition alliance.

AXIS?
Russia, France and Germany officially included into the AXIS of Evil now?
Good work Please don't stop, soon the rest of the world will be in that axis.

	18-04-2003 18:51									#282
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Serb, are you seriously claiming that Russia has no interests in Iraq, or that it is above doing all what it can to protect them?

quote: Don't worry, it's absolutely clear that you are russofob.

LOL

Ya boyus tolko vashevo pravitelstva. Vi sovsyem ne plohie lyudi, hotya lehko vpechatlayemie , kak vidno iz demonstrazii protiv voini.

V te dni kogda sami Iraqzi zhgli portreti Saddama Husseina, vachi bili yedinstvinye kotorie demonstrirovaly derzha evo portreti, i nazivaya yevo leaderom Iraqa.

quote: What I saw: reporter asks question, mr. Arnet replies, then goes translation. There was no any other voices.

What I saw: voice over of the question, Mr. Arnet replies, voice over translating his answer, some of the time putting words in his mouth.

quote: What you claims it's just absurd. Why Russian TV folks needed to corrupt what Arnet said? He is American renegade reporter, btw, as YOU said.

Because if they can omit some of his positive sayings about the US (which he did have, and were never translated) and add some of their own negative sayings, most people will simply assume that is all he said.

That distorts the picture against the USA - which is what Russian TV is trying for some reason to create.

	18-04-2003 18:55									#283
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To paraphrase top ranking russian military officers: "he maybe a brutal dictator, but he's one of ours".

	18-04-2003 19:11									#284
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quote: Originally posted by Serb Really? Is 5.56 really so popular among Russian manufacturers Where the hell do you think we use all those 5.56? Perhaps in our AK assualt rifles that are 7.62 and 5.45 by definition? Yeah, sure I always thought that M-16 has calibre 5.56 and that .222 Remington Special (.223) it's just type of ammo. So, please, go ahead and educate me.

hi ,

, sjee , .....

anyone who owns a 223 can tell you its different from 222 , .....

and if you where to get a buck for each pallet of 5.56 ammo that has "made in Russia" on it , .... well you would be a millionaire , ...

bye

	18-04-2003 20:00									#285
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I love Serb

	19-04-2003 06:12									#286
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quote: Originally posted by panag anyone who owns a 223 can tell you its different from 222 , .....

No sh!t Sherlock ((c) David Floyd), but I said ".222 Remington Special " which is the first name of .223. It was renamed to .223 later.

quote: and if you where to get a buck for each pallet of 5.56 ammo that has "made in Russia" on it , .... well you would be a millionaire , ...

I realize that exported Russian ammunition is better and cheaper so it could be very popular on the West, but I doubt that its more widespread than its western analogs.

Anyway, I don't see you point. I said it was Americans who attacked our diplomats because eyewitnesses said so and because bullets extracted from wounded and from damaged cars were 5.56 bullets from M-16. Iraqis equipped with Kalashnikovs (they bought more then 3 millions Kalashnikovs from Soviet Union) that has 7.62 calibre.


Btw, you forget to say "have a nice day".

	19-04-2003 07:22									#287
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quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov Serb, are you seriously claiming that Russia has no interests in Iraq, or that it is above doing all what it can to protect them?

Russia had interests in Iraq. We made business with Iraq. Our businessmans has contracts signed. Our factories produced enormous amounts of goods for Iraq in accordance with programm "oil in exchange for food". We are losing billions of $$$ because of this war. Now when Yanks occupy, (absolutely ILLEGALLY occupy) Iraq, they will took our contracts for their manufacturers. And you think we should be happy about this? Furthermore they (Yanks) offered to us that we must forgive Iraqi debt to us, which is btw is around 8 billions $$$. It's just f*cking great- they come, killed hell knows how many people, destroyed half of the country, took our contracts and now offers to us to pay for their showdowns with Saddam.
So, yes we had interests there. And yes, our media was biased when it's displayed this war (as well as any other media). But our contracts with Iraq has very little with this biased approach. Our media acted like any other media- they shown what people wanted to see, because they care about their ratings. Absolute majority of our population was anti-war (anti-American, if you wish) and it's the only reason why majority of TV chanels were anti-war (anti-American, if you wish) also. Our people was anti-war not because of our trade with Iraq, but because it was another war of agression started by Americans, who consider themselves as uberhumans, gods and rullers of this planet. We don't want to live in the world where uncle Sam decide who deserves to live and who isn't.

quote: LOL Ya boyus tolko vashevo pravitelstva. Vi sovsyem ne plohie lyudi, hotya lehko vpechatlayemie , kak vidno iz demonstrazii protiv voini.

Oh, common. We weren't alone. You never noticed all those war-protesters, in all those countries including USA itself? We were one of the last actually. First REALLY big anti-war demonstration in Moscow happened when Yanks were in Baghdad already.

quote: V te dni kogda sami Iraqzi zhgli portreti Saddama Husseina, vachi bili yedinstvinye kotorie demonstrirovaly derzha evo portreti, i nazivaya yevo leaderom Iraqa.

Where the hell were remaining Iraqis? Perhaps they fought against invaders at this moment. Please save this crap " Iraqis cheers US soldiers and meet them with flowers" for someone else. Saying this is denial of all this heavy fighting which took place there during weeks. Guys who were pretty happy about arrival of Yanks in most of the cases just thieves and marauder who celebrated beginning of chaos which made them rich people.

quote: What I saw: voice over of the question, Mr. Arnet replies, voice over translating his answer, some of the time putting words in his mouth.

Once again, I don't noticed this. Perhaps it was special, edited report for Israel chanel 9.

quote: Because if they can omit some of his positive sayings about the US (which he did have, and were never translated) and add some of their own negative sayings, most people will simply assume that is all he said.

Oh really? I don't remember all details of this interview, but I remember when reporter asked: "How long do you think this war will last?" Arnet answered "I think US army will be here, in downtown of Baghdad within week."
In accordance with your conspiracy theory this comment should have been corrupted.

quote: That distorts the picture against the USA - which is what Russian TV is trying for some reason to create.

Russian TV reflects the feelings of Russian society. And this society is very unhappy each time when they see Americans bombing another country to stone age.

	19-04-2003 21:03									#288
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quote: Russia had interests in Iraq. We made business with Iraq

And you only have 8 billion dollar debt from Iraq that would never be payed by Saddam.

quote: Where the hell were remaining Iraqis?

Serb, my grandma says, that if Americans Had entred Moscow in 1937, Russian people would have felt liberated.


Serb, why do your TV shows wounded Iraqi people but do not not show wounded USA soldiers?

	19-04-2003 21:06									#289
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Is China already in Axis of Evil? If not i must say you something, Serb.

Made in Russia-
Made in parasha.
Made in China-
Made sluchaino.